Foden7536

So, rather than being at a certain West Country steam rally with the Burrell this weekend has been spent doing some more Foden destruction! The cab is very origional, but also very rotten, with several parts plated and strengthened by the previous owner, my intention is to retain as much of the origional timber as possible and splice in new wherever possible. So yesterday saw the cab being removed and bolted onto a framework as a jig to keep all the uprights in place (the centre support isn’t shown in the photos, this was added later as I needed the cab off to fit them) the cab is now home so I can work on it in the relative luxury of the garage. Next to come out was the crank, this is in need of some serious work, the main bearing and big end journals are very scored so a regrind is required. Also the roller bearing eccentrics are life expired and will need replacing, however the first task is going to be getting the flywheel and eccentrics off the crank. With all the motion now removed I can inspect all the parts and work forward, however most parts will need work, but I have a workshop at home so most machining jobs can be done “in house” (apart from the crank grind) so I’m looking forward to getting stuck into it. Today has Been spent steam cleaning the boiler and various components, further updates to follow!

Thanks Hedd, I was very lucky to pick up three of those lamps, 2 are like this one and brand new, never lit, it was a good discovery! I have a P&H self generating headlamp for the Foden (the lamp is currently under restoration). What made me wonder is the build sheet states it was supplied to WD with “Dependence fronts and tails, P&H headlight” so I assumed only the self generating to be a P&H lamp?

Thank you for that. That’s me driving, the Foden was still owned by its previous owner Colin Wheeler at this time. Thank you for sharing. David

Good evening. Sorry to start another new thread on lamps, but I wonder if some of you knowledgable people can help. Within my collection of lamps I have three of these lamps. As you can see by the photos they are twin fork mounted, stand 13” high to the top of the handle, and have a brass plate on with the description “DEPENDENCE J&R Oldfield Type No 443” From the look of them I think it’s fair to say this one has never been lit, neither has another of the set, whilst the third has. (All three are front lamps) Something that has made me think about this group is that they have only a front lens, there is no rear red lens (like my Lucas King of the road lamps have) so I wonder if they would have been fitted to a vehicle with a “scuttle” so the rear of the lamp wouldn’t be visible? There are no WD markings, so I’m not saying they are correct for a military vehicle, however someone might know what vehicles did carry them? On the build sheet for my Foden it says it was supplied new to the WD with a set of “Oldfield Dependence lamps” but I have always assumed these would have WD stamped into them, and likewise would have a red lens at the rear (again like the Lucas lamps which it would have been supplied with it it went into civilian ownership when new? All thoughts, comments and observations are very welcome. David

Yes Dave, the block has two pipes which go down into the steam space with nuts on the bottom. Rather than having a big hole like on an Aveling etc. Off the top of my head I think it has 16 5/8” bolts just to locate the cylinder.

Well, it’s fair to say that this season isn’t quite going to plan is it! Last time I posted back in May I was saying about my planned trip to France... if all had gone to plan after that I was to attend a show on Guernsey, before taking the Foden back to Devon to mark the centenary of it being purchased by Devon County Council - but alas it wasn’t to be! The covid lockdown and cancellation of events has moved my planned winter maintenance forward by a few months, this year my Foden comes up for its 10 year hydraulic boiler test. The firebox and front tubeplate were replaced 20 years ago and the same set of boiler tubes have been in it since, and although still in reasonable condition I thought it sensible to replace them whilst the boiler is stripped. So first job was to remove the outer smokebox (for those unfamiliar to Foden wagons the boiler barrel extends into the smokebox, but there is a “outer smokebox” with the gap between them lagged. This outer is held on by 1/2” rivets and is only lightweight so is easily removed. Anyway, once this was removed it was a simple case of grinding the ends of the tubes flush in the firebox and then pulling the tubes out the front, the 53 smoke tubes, and single stay tube were withdrawn within a hour and a half, and then my next job is to needle gun the inside of the barrel - not an easy task with the very small door in the front tubeplate to work through, but it’s all done now. Removal of fittings and studs was a tedious as always with several broken studs to attend too - and always the ones in the most awkward places! My next job is to remove the cab and crank (it needs a grind and new bearings etc) then I’m going to lift the boiler assemble out of the chassis, that way I can take the “power unit” home to work on in my shed, rather than having to drive for an hour to get to where the wagon is kept. Slow progress, but I hope this is of interest. With all the fantastic restoration blogs on here, and photos of things going back together, I thought I’d buck the trend and take mine apart !!!

Where are you based Ben? I get aluminium castings done by “Harling Foundry” in Hastings, they are very sympathetic with work on older stuff and delicate with patterns. They do quite a lot of vintage and veteran car stuff for me. Lloyd (the boss man) is very pleasant and knowledgeable. 01424 443160 If that’s any help.

From what I have been told the lorry and it’s contents have been found, Apparently in a layby and no damage to the cargo. Police are there and hopefully they may catch the scum who did this. But, I’ve taken it as a wake up call for the security of my stuff!

Sorry to have to share this, a friend has had his Scania curtain side lorry stolen last night. In the back was his Clayton Steam Lorry. Please can people keep an eye out, and also be aware of this theft, it’s certainly making me think about the security of our vehicles.

Does anyone know how this project is progressing? I remember it when Chris Jones had it at Chatham, I often wondered what became of it. Likewise Karl Hopper had what I recall was a Thornycroft (but I am probably wrong, I was very young at the time) which came from the Philp Auction - although I stand to be corrected on that!

Good evening. It’s a mainly tractor event at Gournay-en-Bray, but three engines were planning on steaming from home (Hadlow Down) to Newhaven to catch the ferry to Dieppe then it’s about 50 miles down through France to the rally. Some friends did it last year with vintage tractors and this was going to be the first time with steam, so hopefully we can do it again another year.

I hope this is of interest, it’s an account of a steam wagon driver, driving something much like my own wagon. It is from “The Worlds Fair” of January 1916 JUST ONE DAY IN A WAGON IN FRANCE - by “Norman” ’There are eighty four steam wagons “parked” in one large yard, hence its name “Lurry Park”. You set off at 4.30am from your tent, which is a good mile from the above mentioned park, and on arriving you start a game of “hunt your slipper”, or I should say hunt your engine; for remember there are eighty four engines, all like yours and the majority of them have been parked after yours. Now, in your hunt you have to be very careful because if you happen to make a mistake and commence to climb on the wrong one, you are in danger of a clump in the ear from the driver, who (no doubt) thinks you are trying to pinch his firewood. After knocking all the skin off your knuckles cleaning the clinkers out, you light up and having seen your fire strong you set out for your breakfast. Talk about the song “back to the office I went” well, it’s not in it, I walk a mile to work, then a mile back for my breakfast, and a mile back to work again - well, it prevents indigestion. What a grand thing army life is! After breakfast is a performance that cannot be passed over in a few words - ah no! To get your breakfast you have to pass the cook house, and whilst doing so your nose is assailed by the beautiful odour of fried bacon - hurrah! You make a dash for the mess room where you find you can have your choice of jelly or ham, but the bacon -well the smell is your share; that is for the NCO’s, you have a slice of bread and jam and register a solemn oath that the next time you join the army again it will be as a sergeant or not at all! After breakfast you go back to your engine, oil round, get your sheet, and sort of “get set” for the day. By this time bells are ringing and horns are blowing as this or that impatient individual lets his neighbours know that he is ready and anxious to get to work. Now, if you are also ready you dash out of the yard “a la Donaldson” and nearly hit a corporal or two in your endevours to show How eager you are to get to work! If, on the other hand, she has steamed badly and you are in danger of being last (and so get a roasting from the Sargent) you shove her in slow gear and crawl out of the park as my Scottish friend has it “on tippy toes for fear of wakening the lazy French folk” ! After arriving at your job, which may be one of a hundred you have a look around to see if your engine is intact, and, finding everything ok you make yourself as snug as you can in your bunker and practice French on any of the French people who happen to be around until you are loaded. Dinner time comes as a happy interval, when you can have your choice of bully slice, bully stew, or bully. After dinner you return to the job you have been on in the morning and continue until you are signed off which means you can return to the lurry park on rare occasions, by day five o’clock. You make a dash for home, planning enroute, what you will do in the extra hours that have fallen to your lot. But you must not build too lightly on this, for as you go careering through the gate of the park you will perhaps hear the corporal yelling at you “right round 30 and you wheel your engine round and wish fervently that the corporal finds nothing in his stocking next Christmas! You are now handed another sheet in perusal of which you find you have to take a load of rations for some troops preceding up the line. After missing your tea and nearly breaking your wagon up in some atrocious holes you wander home, wondering meanwhile will this d———— war ever finish!

Good evening, I hope we find everyone well. Unfortunately work on the Foden has been non existent for the last month since where the Foden is currently kept has been on lockdown, however this has meant I can progress on work at home. I had a few excursions planned for 2020, with rallies in France, Guernsey, Devon, Cornwall and Dorset on the itinerary, however one by one all these events have been cancelled so we won’t be going far this year! However this does mean that the planned winter jobs can be brought forward. At the end of this season my 10 year boiler test is due, so I need to strip the wagon, I am going to remove the boiler from the chassis, as some bearings need attention, also the tubes need replacing (they were put in when the firebox was fitted 20 years ago, and they have done very well, however they will be replaced. Likewise I will change all studs, overhaul the fittings etc. If this is of interest then I will add photos as and when I get into the jobs. The other job I plan to do this year is to restore the cab. Unfortunately there is some rot and previously bit of steel plate have been fitted to keep the cab in shape, but I wish to replace the rotted bits and repair the rest, together with new canvas etc. I want to retain as much as possible of the original cab, so this could be an interesting “conservation” job. Keep well everyone! David

Ha ha, sounds like a good book! Is the model going to be produced commercially in the future? All the best, please keep us updated on progress of the models, they look very interesting. David

Looks a lovely model, hope my measurements are of use? If there’s anything else I can assist you with please do not hesitate in contacting me. On a slight tangent - the title of the book in the background made me chuckle... perhaps you can share a few to cheer us up during these bad times?! David

Good afternoon George, What scale are you building the 5 ton wagon? It will be good to see a miniature 5 tonner, there’s plenty of model 6 ton wagons in various scales and styles, but I don’t recall ever seeing a model 5 ton version. Unfortunately where the Foden is currently tucked away in her shed photography isn’t easy, so I’ve done a rough sketch for you, hope this is OK, as you can tell I’m no draughtsman! Basically, the divider plate is set at an angle, the gear guard side being 1.5” nearer the boiler than the near side. This plate should be riveted into place with two angle irons, however mine has been fabricated at some time in the past (a detail I wish to correct) The actual divider plate is made of 3/8plate, with a piece of 3/4” angle riveted to the top. This is held with 1/4” countersunk rivers, at 4” pitch. The height from the steel floor of the man-stand to the underside of the angle iron “capping” is 16.5” I hope this is of help. If you need any other measurements, or if you want to come and study my Foden (once we are allowed to socialise again) then you’re more than welcome to come and look - we are in Kent.

Good morning Hedd, Thank you for those comments, yes I am very lucky to own the Foden, my living van is under restoration at the moment (it’s a local van to me, having been built by Weeks of Maidstone) In fairness a Marshall Tractor and Fowler T3 are a nice pair too! How is the T3 coming along? Regards David

Thank you for this information Adrian, that’s very interesting. Regards David

Yes, that’s a fair point Ed, does anyone know how successful Wilkins Gear was? To the best of my knowledge there are no vehicles fitted with this in preservation (please correct me if I’m wrong) so if it wasn’t a huge success perhaps this could explain it being converted?

Good evening all, Well, at present I am slightly perplexed! I was most interested in the information “Runflat” kindly shared about the “Wilkins Patent” equipment, as this really wasn’t what I was expecting! I am confident that my Foden was built as a tipping wagon, certainly the chassis is cut down, and the hinge is still present (although the body is incorrect and needs remaking at some point in the future, as there should be a steel framework for the tipping body, on which the wooden body is mounted. The crankshaft still has has a pulley fitted onto the end of the crankshaft, this would take a belt to drive the tipping mechanism - originally this would have a lip on the inside edge, but this has been machined off (I assume so a wider belt could be driven off the pulley - probably when the governors were ordered and fitted in 1937) The cab has the mounting holes, cut outs and witness marks where the tipping gear was once fitted - now all sadly missing. So this makes me ponder about the “Wilkins Patent Unloading Gear” as written in the order book, was this a mistake, a changed order, or did Mr Wilkins also design the mechanical tipping gear? I have ordered a copy of the build sheet for Foden 7768 (the Foden restored in WD livery) which has the same tipping mechanism as mine should have to see what the order book says about this one... Please find attached a few photos of my Foden hinges and the pages from the Foden catalogue regarding this mechanism. Regards David

Ah of course, sorry I was having a dim moment! I’ve only been in Jim Hatfield’s Sentinel, but can see the appeal of one for eating up the miles, my Foden is a wonderful machine but certainly can’t be described as swift! Regards David

I am very interested in the cast polyurethane tyres you mention Ed, can they replicate the lettering on the edge of the tyre (make, size etc) as I think this adds to the originality of the vehicle. On Dave Eves recreation of the Fowler B6 Showman’s “Onward” he has got “Macintosh Endless Rubber” (or something similar) written on the sidewall as per the original, speaking to him he achieved this by cutting the letter out and glueing them onto the spun on rubbers, I must admit the end result is very good. Regards David

So, the work done on the Foden which I am going to post here isn’t necessarily in chronological order, in fact I’m starting with the most recent job and working backwards! The front tyres on the Foden were in terrible condition, and the previous owner was well aware of this and had therefore purchased four “new” 160 for 670 Dunlop tyres from Andrew Hawkswell (well known to “QL driver!) several years ago which came with the Foden when I purchased it. So, a couple of weeks ago, indeed the Saturday when “storm Dennis” hit I travelled what is obviously a well trodden path by posters on this site - to Woburn Sands to see Barry W and his crew and the fantastic tyre press! Well, what a bit of kit! It’s brilliant that this has been preserved, but not only that but has also gone to such a generous man who allows others to use it, so a few hours, a couple of cups of tea and a sizeable offering of cake (to bribe the pump operators - I was amazed by how Graham S pumps away at that handle and never gets out of breath - I was knackered within minutes!) the new tyres were fitted, and this weekend I have reassembled the front end of the wagon. The improvement in looks is amazing, I look forward to trying them out soon! Regards David

Good evening Ed, Thank you for your comments on the Incorrect pump! I have spoken to Mike and Des Brown and hope to arrange something at some point. This summer I intend to take the Foden back to Devon and Cornwall to mark the centenary of the council buying the wagon, I hope to reunite it with the other 5 ton Foden (formally with the Dyke family) which was owned by Devon CC Regards David

Good afternoon Tomo, Thank you for posting that photo, it’s a personal favourite as some of the little details are wonderful, as you say the fire extinguisher and heat shield on the chimney, but also the rolled up sheets around the cab, guttering a downpipes for the cab etc. the buffers are indeed a very interesting subject, in my “archives” of 5 ton WD wagons I have some images of wagons with them fitted, but likewise quite a few without, so quite what the reasoning for / against the fitment of them to some, but not all wagons will be another avenue to investigate. Likewise lots of WD Fodens have short canopies, whilst some have a longer one (like mine) as far as I can tell mine is original and so again want to investigate why the differences, I would have thought that a “standard” tipping wagon would be just that, but when I study mine against number 7768 (which as you know is the other surviving WD Foden, and remains in WD livery) there are several minor differences despite them both being built late in 1917. I will post some of my photos later. looking forward to reading more about the Thornycroft restoration. Regards David