Richard Peskett

Regarding the 'RAF' type Leylands in Lancashire and Yorkshire railway ownership it is somewhat ironic that considerable numbers of these vehicles were part manufactured and assembled under contract at the L & Y workshops at Horwich and Newton Heath. Production figures included 5318 chassis frames, 2228 front axles and 1504 bodies. ( reference 'The Engineer' 1.8.1919). Unfortunately no Ryknields have surviuved, generally registered in the 'FA ... ' series at the factory in Burton upon Trent. A short spell of popularity in Belgium but a disastrous fire at the exhibition there in about 1909 put an end to that, finally going out of business in 1911. Richard Peskett.

Some interesting comments made but I think all have missed the point that the 100th anniversary extends until the armistice in November 2018 so why is there a head long rush into doing something next year. Next years Brighton commercial run will not yet have reached the 100th anniversary. I am involved in a major project but the vehicle will not appear until after the August date and its usuage will extend to attending events both here and hopefully the other side of the channel until 2018. As for a grand gathering of WW 1 road transport, this I have looked into with a possible venue in the West Midlands which would be as central as possible for owners but there is still the logistical problem ( and cost ! ) of getting vehicles there, a type of private event where owners can be free to swap notes and have an enjoyable weekend. As we are all aware several WW1 lorries are in civillian colours, possibly because of heritage reasons but the first two WW 1 trucks I restored in the 1970s were in civillian colours and there was little or in fact no interest in military vehicles at the time. I think Jack Sparshat's Hallford found in almost unused condition at a glove factory at Slough was probably the first to be restored in WW 1 livery in 1957. Other museums who we do business with are also expressing a similar view that the anniversary will be spread over four years. Richard Peskett.

Reference the type of magneto fitted and my previous re. the Automobile Engineer, it quotes Bosch 'Duplex' using a DU 4 magneto and vibrating coil , in other words dual ignition. Richard Peskett.

Further reading on the Packard lorry - in Commercial Motor series 'Chariots of War I have driven' the Packard appears in the issue dated 28.12.1916. The Packard '4D' appears in detail in the Automobile Engineer series 'Military Transport Chassis -their performance under war conditions' in the issue for May 1919. Richard Peskett.

Have been there and done that !!. We restored a Class B Liberty some years ago for a customer. It had worked in the docks at Bilbao, Spain and arrived here in two halves. Fortunately we acquired another chassis frame from under a bungalow by the river Trent in Nottinghamshire which provided a replacement chassis frame and rear steel wheels. Also had a spare engine ( now fitted) which I had bought years previous from Jack Hardwick at Ewell which had in previous life belonged to Ellias Harris who travelled a Wall of Death motor cycle stunt show in which a lioness rode in the sidecar !. The Class 'B' truck is an interesting build history and goes to prove what can be done in wartime with good organisation. The first model had wood wheels and electric lighting whereas the second version had steel wheels and oil lighting. Richard Peskett.

Tim, Lots of questions and circumstances to be taken into consideration !. I think I will start a separate thread about 'How we have acquired our vehicles ' , I think it will make interesting reading looking back. The Quad had not actually been on fire , it had been owned by the LeMan 24 hour circuit owners since 1921, used as a maintenance vehicle at the circuit and probably has the fame of being the only vehicle to attend every 24 hour race from then until 1978. it had eventually been abandoned in the corner of a field which was used for camping /car parking at race times, the body had been used for camp fire wood and the radiator had been torn out for its scrap value, fortunately the mounting brackets were still in place , but the whole vehicle had eventually become completely overgrown but remained virtually complete mechanically. I soon amassed a resonable amount of literature , as a new concept there was plenty published about it. 1979 was before I opened my restoration workshop as such so work was done evenings and weekends, nevertheless 23 months saw it finished and sucessfully taking part in the London to Brighton commercial run. Most components on a Quad come in 2s or 4s, axles, steering parts , brakes all being interchangable side to side , end to end. Totally dismantled , cleaned, inspected etc. most parts had survived well but all universal joints were rebuilt and all bearings replaced ( Timken tapers and lots of them, most were still listed and I did a deal with Timken for publicity ) big financial saving !. New Dunlop solid tyres. Engine completely rebuilt, gearbox - only replaced the bearings, the main drive a massive Morse inverted tooth chain was still very servicible. Marstons made the new 'honeycomb' radiator core ( the largest thay had made at the time), made the case ourselves and used the original mounting brackets. Cab built to photographs, period commercial body built using contemporary ironwork from a spare Fiat body I had. Painted civillian colours as other early solid tyre lorries being restored then ,there was little interest in WW1 until I restored the Thornycroft 'J' mobile anti-aircraft gun lorry for IWM in 1987. The cost today if carried out in our commercial workshop would exceed £50k. Just start to add up the hours spent !!. If you costed it out at the rate charged when servicing your modern car by your local friendly main agent you would probably add another nought . Richard Peskett.

This is what I got for my £289 ( FF3000) back in May 1979 , one 1915 Jeffery-Quad model 4016B as removed from the undergrowth at Le Mans. Richard Peskett.

A little more on the engine design. The engine layout had very much become standard by 1914 with cylinders being cast in pairs , valves being on one side and non detachable heads ( blind bores). Earlier engines and in particular the twin shaft Austin still had cylinder blocks cast as individual blocks for each cylinder and often valves to each side ( two camshafts known as 'T' head). UK manufacturers lagged behind somewhat in design and by 1915 or earlier the Buda engine in Jeffery-Quads was monoblock , 'L' head and soon after detachable cylinder heads became normal practice. It was to be several more years before UK manufacturers generally took up this feature. Provision for an electric starter and lighting was included in the USA 'Liberty' truck design of 1917. As late as 1937 an electric starter was optional on a petrol engine AEC 'Matador' goods chassis. Interestingly Gardner diesels with the 5 and 6 LW series still split the cylinder blocks as either 3 & 2 or 3 & 3 for a great number of years. Regarding the asking price of E25000, is this really so much for what seems a reasonably complete and genuine WW 1 truck ? prices have moved on here considerably in the last few years , the equivalent sterling amount will possibly only get you 2 Austin 7s now . I remember paying the grand sum of £ 289 for my Jeffery-Quad in 1979 when purchasing it from ther owners of the LeMans motor racing circuit. Richard Peskett.

I think you will find the vehicle on offer is a Jeffery-Quad rather than a Nash-Quad, the radiator and wheels are a Jeffery as is the Buda TM3 engine fitted. There should be a serial number on a brass plate on the front cross member below the radiator. When I bought my Quad back in 1979 it was very fortunate that this plate was still attached and enabled me to positively identify the vehicle year etc. Nash bought out the Thomas B. Jefferey company in July 1916. Richard Peskett.

Confirmation that the first picture is a McCurd, herewith probably the same vehicle when new in April 1914. The bodywork is by E & H. Hora, Peckham. Richard Peskett.

The Albion A 10 model is very well written up in the Automobile Engineer, Vol. 8 1918 pages 46 to 53 and Vol. 9 1919 pages 68 to 71. Picture of front end herewith Richard Peskett.

Interesting question !. This web site is probably the best to identify vehicles, there are several of us who between can identify most . Beyond this the most comprehensive volume published is 'The complete encyclopedia of Commercial Vehicles' . For USA produced vehicles 'American Truck Spotters Guide 1920-1970' and ' US Wheeled Military Vehicles'. Probably the best publication in magazine format is 'Old Motor' published 1963 to the late 1970s, this includes much WW 1 material including the series of articles 'Mechanised Massacre'. All of these are generally available second hand at ABE Books on line. Contemporary volumes of the 'Automobile Engineer' carry many comprehensive articles on WW 1 trucks. Finally much contemporary material is now available on line including 'Commercial Motor' magazine and 'Automobil-Zeitung' which covers German /Austrian material of the period in question. Richard Peskett.

I think this to be more likely a Straker wagon of mid. 1905. Herewith advertisement illustration from the Industrial Motor Review, November 1905. Richard Peskett.

Use of sprags - their probable failure was no doubt due to misuse . The sprag should be dropped before a situation arrises where it may be needed such as a missed gear change going up hill. Its no good trying to use it once the vehicle has started to roll backwards on the slope, this results in it being over run or where it was fitted to most pre 1900 motor cars the vehicle can easily overturn. Richard Peskett.

Continuing from ' Photo second opinion' thread. Roy's comments on the early ASC lorries and their origins, the reference to Neustadt Daimlers obviously refers to the German Daimler subsidiary ' Osterreichische Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft, generally known as Austro-Daimler. Some of these lorries may well be ,Milnes may or may not had a part in the deal . The 1901 trials list one entry ( no. 4 ) from G.F.Milnes. To start a list here goes: ASC 1 AA .... Straker-Squire ambulance. ASC 3 AA 1840 Straker-Squire ? ambulance ASC 5 AA 1844 Wolseley ? ambulance ASC 16 AA 2008 Milnes-Daimler ? lorry ASC 29 AA 2339 Thornycroft lorry AA 2329 Milnes-Daimler 3 ton lorry AA 2330 Do. AA 2331 ? Milnes-Daimler 3 ton lorry AA 3178 Austro-Daimler ? 30cwt lorry AA 3179 Do. AA 3180 Do. B 2382 Leyland 3 ton lorry B 2383 Do. B 2384 Do. All of these vide photographic evidence. Richard Peskett.

I agree its a a Straker-Squire, picture herewith of ( I think ) RI 1727, Motor Traction December 1911. In addition to my previous note, Motor Traction also ran a series ' Motor Traction in Ireland ' starting June 1911. With reference to Roys comments we are straying !, I will start a new thread ' Early ASC motor lorries' Richard Peskett.

Further to Tim's remarks regarding the radiators, the large demand for trucks in 1915 brought about importations of standard American ' off the shelf ' trucks, most had brass cased radiators and honeycomb or similar cores. With the rigors of WW1 rough terrain these were prone to leaking so much more sturdy designs using cast iron top and bottom tanks and tube cores were adopted. Makes including F.W.D., Locomobile, Peerless and Jeffery-Quad were amongst those that underwent change. Richard Peskett.

Well done Johnny, some good research material. Motor Traction for 1913 runs a regular series ' Motor Transport Developments in Ireland' and the issue of November 8th covers 'The Dublin Transport Crisis' in detail regarding the transport workers strike. Straker-Squire enjoyed good sales through their Dublin sole agents Ashenhurst, Williams and Co. The Guinness Daimlers are in fact Milnes-Daimlers, built at Marienfelde, Berlin, the Daimler name was retained for commercial vehicles following adoption of the 'Mercedes' trading name . G.F.Milnes obtained sole selling rights in GB and the British Empire selling under the Milnes-Daimler name, nothing to do with the Coventrey manufacturer. Ironically some of the first ASC lorries were German built Milnes-Daimlers. Richard Peskett.

I assume the lorry on offer is a model 4D shaft drive. The engine size would be 4.5" x 5.5" . A smaller model turned up under a shed at Woolston, Southampton about 15 years ago, devoid of all entrails etc. it probably went for scrap. There is a good write up on the model 4D in Automobile Engineer May 1919 -Military Transport Chassis - their performance under war conditions. Richard Peskett.

There was at least one brass radiator version of the T Ford 'Crewe Tractor'. L.N.W.R. works production was claimed to be about 150 by October 1918 , the change from road to rail could be accomplished in 1 hour and it was fitted with a device that enabled it to be lifted and turned 'end to end' when in rail use.The change from brass to black radiator was effected in the U.S.A. in August 1916 but at Manchester in the UK not until mid 1917. Obviously in all these situations old stock was used up first. Richard Peskett.

Auto-carrier tricars, Rye, Sussex, summer 1911. Richard Peskett.

The Ford 'Crewe' rail tractor has a good write up in 'The Engineer', Volume 126, July / December 1918, page 339. Richard Peskett.

Almost certainly made by Raydot as a Raydot-Ford side lamp fitted to the 1 ton TT truck range 1923- 1927. ( information 'The English Model 'T' Ford). Richard Pesket.

Reference to previous, providing the Daimler at Beamish is definately the ex. Sparshatt vehicle, BK 8794, it dates from 1923 and never has been a refuse wagon, it was bought back by JH in 1957 from the one previous owner, Strides, market garders of Havant. Made its first public appearance in preservation at the 'Old Commercial Vehicle Rally' at Beaulieu in July 1957, a most important event as following a meeting held there the Historic Commercial Vehicle Club was formed. The vehicle of course has been in preservation ever since. Richard Peskett.

The ex. Sharp collection Napier was one of nine WW 1 period commercials found in undergrowth behind Beedon's garage in Northampton in 1963. Beedons ran a transport business along with buses and coaches and when no longer required some of the vehicles were 'put out to grass' behind the garage. There were six assorted A.E.C /Daimlers, one McCurd and two Napiers. The Sharp vehicle was bodied by John Mitchell in the early 1970s at the time he built several similar LGOC 'B' type bodies on modern chassis, the one at Beaulieu is one of these. The other Napier, a larger 3 ton in reasonably complete condition was sold at Stamford Hall rally in about 1965 and is still unrestored with the person who bought it at that time. Richard Peskett.