airdave

well, I couldn't find the exact discussion you was referring to, but I found BlueBelle's mention of the Barbary Dhow ...and that led to some Google searching...and eventually to an auction site that was selling an old Tripoli District patch...and to more information on the Tripoli Formation flash...which led to more searches for related terms...and eventually to a large image of the Tripoli patch and all the pertinent info I needed! lol Now I am off to finalize my second Saladin kit and get it into the shop before Xmas!

okay...I sorted it out. I have all I need regarding the Barbary Dhow flash based on the Tripolitania District badge. Found some clear artwork, in colour, so I can recreate an acceptable fascimile to use on my model.

haha I knew I had seen this patch somewhere! Member "Blue Belle" has it has their avatar!! I will go through the "Research" thread and try to find the discussion. But I'll also contact Blue Belle about the avatar. Thanks.

Follow up to this thread...the Saladin has travelled quite a bit and been displayed at a number of model events with great feedback. I recently did some touch ups...to freshen up the colour... and I tried a new clearcoat spray that leaves a semi-gloss sheen. I really like the results, and I wish I had tried this earlier. In fact, I am going to apply the same touch-ups and clearcoat to my big Centurion model. Anyway, I am finally finishing up the Desert Stone/Sand version of this kit. And I have settled on a particular solid colour Saladin from 1960. This Saladin of 2nd Royal Tank Regiment appears in Libya with the Tank regiment crest and another Patch that I can't identify. I'm sure I have seen this before...maybe even recreated it on another model, but I can't remember where or what for. Anyone hear have any knowledge? Not only am I trying to verify the basic artwork, but I need to verify the colours used.

not mine, its freshly cleaned and painted

would you -add- rust to your own vehicle?

See what you can do with some paper and string?! Very small parts...a pain to assemble! but the end result is pretty good. Next task is to try them on the model itself. Waiting for some materials to finish making the surface connectors.

EXCELLENT! thanks

Heres another question...maybe someone has one of these Hooks or a clearer photo? I'm adding some basic parts to my kit, so builders can create the Tow Cables for the front of the Saladin. Just like I did in my Centurion kit, I've created simplified paper Eyelets and Cable Wraps. Once combined with some twisted Cord (2mm string, rope), a simulated Tow Cable can be put together. Anyway, I notice on the original Saladins, the Cables are hung on the front Brackets using a Hook of some design. In all restorations, they use a D Shackle to store the Cables, but not on the original vehicles. I'd like to use the Hook design. I can't make a D Shackle from paper...but I can create a laminated Hook. But I need to see a clearer photo of one of these Saladin Cable Hooks. In all my reference photos, I haven't one good picture I can use to get the artwork right. This is the best I have so far... there seems to be some sort of safety lock on the Hook?

Wow I could have used those images. Although I collected plenty of stuff from the web. I saw a User Handbook for sale on ebay...almost bought it...but I was nearing completion of the model at that time, so I didn't bother. Maybe next time I see one, I'll grab it if the price is right. I've sorted out the colour...already created my weathered look and test coloured one part of the model. Its gonna take me months before I get the first kit completed for the shop and recolour everything for the second kit. I won't be worrying about any markings until I'm done, so I am sort of jumping the gun here, sorry. I'll watch your thread and get back to you later on...maybe you can help me nail down a few markings at that time.

I understood that the Flag might not be an actual "in service" marking, but some modellers might also build a Saladin in "civilian" duty. Looking like a restored or display vehicle. A "street custom" you might say. When I put out my PT boat model (American Elco 80ft Torpedo Boat) I focused on two basic designs and released two kits. The way it looked when it came from the Elco factory (Two Tone Gray) and how it looked after the US Navy put it into service (painted solid Green). *Some Boats got painted a slightly different colour green, some got various camouflage patterns, and some got disruptive schemes. Some went back to Gray. Because I got requests for specific PT Boats, I also included, in the kits, Parts with markings to produce three different actual PT Boats. Basically just the Registration numbers (PT103, PT109, PT157 etc) and in one case, a small "noseart" for the Bridge. My focus was not on a specific PT Boat, although I tried to be accurate with the extra markings, the main purpose was to represent a USN PT Boat in general. Thats my same approach with this Saladin. I noticed various modifications and tried to settle on certain details that wouldn't be out of place. And just leave it up to the builder to make any further modifications if necessary. ... Back on the topic of a Stone colour Saladin...I'm assuming from the information, that these are British Army Saladins in Libya? Sometime around the early to mid 1960s? This would be a great option and I could create a solid colour Saladin respective of that period and location. Although I would still like to include a markings package for a Saladin of that time and place. BlueBelle...Do you have photos of one particular Saladin, where I can see the entire vehicle, its load-out and all markings? If so, and are willing to share, will you email me those photos?

On the topic of Tan/Sand/Beige coloured Saladins... I've found many vintage photos of solid colour Saladins in middle eastern countries. I also see some done in a camouflage paint. I'm thinking of redoing and also releasing the model in sand colour...or whatever colour that is... the colour seems to vary quite a bit on restorations... but I can't decide whether to do a solid colour or sand/camo version? The solid colour is the easiest to tackle (in a paper model). Because unlike a plastic kit, I have to install the final paint scheme and artwork. And that means I have to line up all the camo pattern across hundreds of parts while those parts are still unassembled. Its challenging and time consuming to get it right. But if the bi/tri colour is more fitting over a solid colour, then thats what I'll do. Any suggestions on a particular Saladin? .. Other than Australia, Saladins went to these countries: BAHRAIN 8 HONDURAS 50 INDONESIA 69 JORDAN 40 KENYA 3 LEBANON 40 MAURITANIA 40 NIGERIA 16 OMAN 38 PORTUGAL 29 SIERRA LEONE 4 SRI LANKA 26 SUDAN 90 TUNISIA 24 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 20 YEMEN 60

A circle...of course. I was already aware of the a/b/c squadron markings. Not sure why I didn't see that. Why would I create a fictional Unit? I already showed what markings I will include in the kit. The basic stuff thats in every Saladin photo. I actually looked at some previously done Scale Models, to see what modellers had done with their Saladin kits, and the markings I am providing will satisfy most modellers, I'm sure. Also keeping in mind, that there are many things a modeller can add or omit on their own. Thats usually what happens with modellers. This is partly why I suggested including one or two real Regimental flashes. It would be a bonus for the modeller...if they wanted to use them. But only if I can verify their existence and actual use on a Saladin. And I need to see them to reproduce them properly. I don't know what the NAM is. I dont know what Pukka markings are. As far as colour/version... I will follow the same method as when I produced and released my Centurion kit. ...unfortunately Canadians didn't use them, so unlike the Centurion, a Canuck version will not be first release. First up, will be a standard British (Green) version). Then, I had planned a sand coloured one. (I haven't done any research yet, but I already have a few photos). I have a lot of fans of Israeli stuff...I did an IAF centurion...not sure if the israeli's used the Saladin. Haven't done the research yet. After that, I had hoped to do a camouflaged version. Probably another British one? or maybe UN?

Unfortunately I still have no idea what insignia we are referring to (I can see three on that Saladin in that photo) or what any of them actually looked like (re that photo). Although, the front fender flash is probably understood at this point. So I assume we are talking about the one on the right (of the two on the turret)? Since the one on the left looks like it is another Rose. I found a website: http://sharpshooters.org.uk/Home/ServingRegiments but I don't see anything that matches. And modern/current insignia is of no help anyway. My only hope is to find original photos (of any UK Saladin) where I can see the insignia flash and can then make my own artist's rendition of it.

Thanks Wally. I agree...it would appear to be some form of white Yorkshire Rose on a blue background (in that Flash). But exactly what does it look like? Without seeing the actual decal, I can't be sure of the artwork, the colours, the overall design. And I am a stickler for reproducing things on my models as they were in real life. Or as closely as I can create them. No, I don`t always get it right...but at least I put in a good try I know its a small and possibly insignificant thing to most, but someone out there will appreciate the effort. As an artist, graphic designer, I am constantly annoyed by the lack of effort to recreate markings as they actually were ...especially in artist's renditions like profile artworks. Theres always too much guesswork. I swear never to use Profile artworks of aircraft and such, since they are often very innaccurate. I know many of these artists, who get their info from living Veteran Pilots. But talking to eyewitnesses is never reliable, especially when you're dealing with 90 year old veterans with 70 year old memories. I also hate it when designers use modern Fonts instead of recreating lettering as they were originally handpainted. Is it that hard to do it right? When I put out an Aircraft kit, I go to painstaking lengths to make sure it has the correct period insignia and positioning of that insignia. American aircraft are notoriously confusing throughout WW2. Period photographs usually make the difference. I always try to seek out photographs of the actual vehicle to verify the facts. So called "experts" are often just heresay repeaters. I want to see the real thing! And, if I am going to try to recreate artwork for an Insignia or the like, I like to do my best to recreate it as accurately as possible. if I can't do that, I will often drop the idea, and choose a replacement option. In this case, I can add one, or two, Regimental Insignia flashes, but only if they are legitimate Saladin usage and as long as I can find a good photo or artwork of the original to work from. I don't just want to grab any Yorkshire Rose image and use that. Its funny how there are so few clear photographs showing that left front fender and an Insignia flash attachment? Best one I have found so far is photos of the Bovington Museum Saladin. Its the only one I have found clear enough to make out the insignia. I just didn't like it, and didn't want to represent that particular car.

wow, thanks guys, for some great input so far. Up to now, I have designed this Saladin model in plain green, no markings or insignia. I wanted to represent an original Mark 2 Saladin in basically an early production form. Ignore the various modifications to surface details, etc over the years. The other day, I decided to add Number Plates to the kit. So I had to pick something real or make something up. I knew this was supposed to be a British Army Saladin, but not necessarily a real one. I already had referred to that first photo showing what I now believe to be a Parade* vehicle. So, that seemed like a good option at the time. *Maybe that explains what appears to be multiple Insignia on the vehicle? The London Dist. on the front fender, a Tudor Rose on the turret, and a third Insignia behind that. With my copy of AFV Weapons 27 staring me in the face, I started looking at the second vehicle I posted (the one with the Rose Insignia). That magazine has a number of photos of what appears to be a Media Day at an Army Training ground (back in the late 50s or early 60s). There are four vehicles, 2 Saladins and 2 Ferrets, performing maneouvers. And the captions state that these are vehicles of "The Queen's Own Hussars" (A Squadron)". I can see more of the vehicles, so this seems like a better choice to copy a vehicle's markings and registration. Thats why the request for the Tudor Rose insignia. But I would need to see that insignia in more clarity to reproduce the artwork for the model. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can find the exact insignia ...I have scoured the web looking for a better photo of this Insignia (on any vehicle), but no luck. And if I am trying to be accurate, I don't want to mock it up incorrectly. So, I have made a decision to be innacurate...not reproduce an actual vehicle. And I will include a few typical "decals" in the kit, that a builder can use in any combination (with a recommendation of where to place them). But I will make no designs on any specific vehicle representation. I am thinking I still might like to include a Regiment insignia or two, as appeared on a Saladin. I notice that many photos show a badge on the lower left front fender. But I need to see a clear photo of that decal to make up a reasonable and respectiful copy. For now, I've gone ahead and placed the typical front decals on my model...and included a Union Jack on the left fender. This didn't seem like an out of place decal, and would appeal to many modellers. So, I've included a couple of those, for front and rear.

Flower shaped insignia (on the Turret of the previous Saladin) must be the same as this one. Can anyone identify the decal itself. Saladin is of the Queen's Own Hussars 'A' Squadron but I can't seem to find a decal or insignia matching this look and shape. (This particular Saladin would be a good choice for my kit, if i can nail down the correct markings.)

Thanks for all the help. Getting down to the finish now. Just adding some final surface details to the Saladin. Things like Taillights, Headlights, Brackets, Accessories... Heres a couple of recent photos: I didn't plan on making the vehicle in any specific markings...just plain Green, but I've decided to include some "surface decals" and I like this photo/vehicle (shown below). I'll use this road registration (OOEC87), but i am unsure of the decals/crests that you can see. Can anyone identify them?...give the the crests info, or what I need to track down the artwork? I've seen the Sword and Crown crest before, but I've forgotten where. Second (Turret) decal looks like a Flower Crest (Poppy? Rose?) And the third decal almost looks like a Figure?

Can anyone tell me what this thing is? Basically just need a name to put next to the Assembly Diagram (in the model kit's Instruction pages).

Those Axle Stands...lol...the focus of everyone's attention it seems! Months back I took some photos of the Chassis before the suspension and other parts went on. So I wanted to raise it up off the deck for a better photograph. I sell some Paper Model Kits full of "Diorama Accessories". I have one kit for Automotive Diorama that includes these small scale Jackstands. And...I just upscaled the Stands, and changed the specs on the Stands (8 Ton). Although, built at their original scale, they are a bit more challenging to build. Anyway, those Stands have been more interesting to all than the Saladin itself! .......... The Saladin continues its growth. Got the Turret finished and on to surface details. Starting at the top and working my way down... Hatches and Periscopes in place. This should be all the finishing touches. Only bigger thing left are the side Storage Bins. As I said, working my way down.

Thanks Robin! Where you located? I'm in Cambridge Ontario. I don't want to hijack this thread anymore, so I'll point to the thread I started for my paper model. Just in case, anyone is curious...thanks! http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?55752-Saladin-Mk-2-Armoured-Car

Hello again...been lurking here for more than a year now, mainly watching the Saladin related threads for useful information. As I mentioned in my original Introduction post, I design and build scale modesl in paper/cardstock and I have been working on a 1/16 scale Saladin kit. I've been lucky enough to find this place, and a number of other photo sources. that have helped me with my work. The design has come a long way in the past year, and I thought maybe it was time to share the progress here. If you are really curious, you can follow the entire design and build at my own paper modelers forum, here: http://cutandfold.info/cutandfoldforum/index.php?topic=600.0 Anyway, I'll just post a few facts and some photos. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Model is 1/16 Scale, built entirely from 65lb (176gsm) Cardstock. Some internal Formers are laminated to 1mm using plain cardboards. Small Wooden dowels (wrapped in paper) are often used (for added strength) for things like Hinge Pins and axles. Everything is designed (from my mind's eye) on the computer and then printed from an Inkjet printer. I work primarily in CorelDraw. There is no painting requireded, all the colour and textures are preprinted on the parts. You just cut out the paper parts, score, fold, shape and glue the indiviudal parts and then assemble into larger structures. I use an assortment of Tools, and I mostly use Aileens Tacky (Craft) Glue. (I also use 3M Spray 77 Contact Adhesive and CA Glues) The model you see is the prototype design for a retail kit. Its about 310mm (12.5") long...the Gun Barrel should add a bit more to that. This is actually the fourth build, each one progressing further than the previous one, although I reach a point where I just modify what I have got (rather than start over). The build may not be exactly the same as the final release model, but its going to be very close. FYI...The final kit is sold as a downloadable PDF file. It comes with a full set of Instruction Pages and assembly diagrams as well as many "Parts" pages. You can print the kit yourself, or take the file to a Print shop. You are able to reprint individual pages, and parts, as needed ....just in case you make a mistake or wish to rebuild something entirely.

Could someone post some photos of the Exhaust Shield please? I'm trying to understand how it slips over the Muffler...and how it is cut to fit. (this is for my 1/16 scale paper model) I understand the Shield is fastened to the Muffler with small brackets at the rear end. My Shield is a snug enough fit that it is supported sufficently...I'm not going to bother with those hidden brackets. I'm mainly only concerned with how it is cut to fit over and around the large mounting brackets on the Muffler. Also...is the Muffler itself pre painted before it is installed on the vehicle? or does it remain bare stainless steel and only areas that aren't covered by the Shield get hit with paint?

Ontario Canada Thanks for the offer.

I didn't know what an A10 Cruiser was (until now). I will have to look and see if there isn't already a paper model of one.