question Photo of a swimming Spartan CVR-T

Has anyone got a photo of a Spartan in the water? I have Photo's in books of swimming Abbotts and wading Chieftans but as yet not seen a floating Spartan.

Now get your books and photo albums out and start searching.

Nigel,

I don't think I've seen one either. I do have the manual for swimming a CVRT though. You'll need this for your CES kit....

Chris

Nigel,

 

I don't think I've seen one either. I do have the manual for swimming a CVRT though. You'll need this for your CES kit....

 

Chris

No you don't. Those things never made it to the front line that I ever saw. I swam a Scorpion in a purpose built tank at Ludgershall in 1977. The Squadron Leader (for whom I then drove a Land Rover) thought it would be fun so he bumped a crew and we had a cabby.

We didn't even have the front mudguards, never mind propellor attachments and the experience was frankly underwhelming. ISTR spending my journey across the tank with both hands on one stick in a desperate attempt to get the thing to go straight, but not succeeding.

A few years later, they realised that:

there were no rivers in BAOR suitable for CVR(T) swimming due to the water entry / exit profile;

withdrawing in contact with the 1st echelon of 3 Shock Army, we could never erect the float screens in time to swim it, especially since they would just swim in and go;

every time we fired the 76 or the coax, there would be shards expelled from the muzzle which attacked the front of the float screen like cinder burns on the hearth rug.

Many years later when Poland allowed 15/19H battlegroup to be the first troops to enter Poland from the west since 1939, they were mortified to discover that training areas had been built over the rivers and the entire river system landscaped to match that of the Weser and other BAOR stop lines. When the Soviets trained, they literally crossed the water exactly as it would be for real driving in, across and out without breaking step. Ever wondered why so many Soviet vehicles have two small rear hatches either side? A hydrojet propulsion system.

And TBH, there is nothing to see. Seen a Sherman DD in the water? No difference. The Germans saw nothing: they missed nothing. And the driver's view from inside was even worse.

And the T72 with a snorkel!! now that would be fun to try out! There is a clip about somewhere of a Jimmy being driven underwater.

There was a guy that tried swimming a Scorpion on tv.

No you don't. Those things never made it to the front line that I ever saw.

They didn't. Nigel has a Spartan with the rest of the swimming gear attached. When we were talking at Beltring I mentioned the propeller and he said he'd like to see it so he can try and find one.

<snipped>

Ever wondered why so many Soviet vehicles have two small rear hatches either side? A hydrojet propulsion system.

Or they used the tracks.......

Thank's Chris,

Now all I have to do is find a pair should be easy!!!!!

Will speak to Andy and see if any even exist, then all I need is the extended mudguards and bilge pump this may take some time.

Nigel,

Pump shouldn't be a problem, it looks like this:

http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=258

Don't pay that much for one though!

Chris

Chris,

Thanks’ Grasshopper also pointed me toward that one, but I felt the price was rather high, and I need to see one complete with handle and tubes preferably.

Nigel,

I will see what I have lying about, definitley have some of the bits spare!

Chris

There was a guy that tried swimming a Scorpion on tv.

Seen that.

If I remember correctly they had to return in a hurry because it was leaking...?

Nigel,

 

I will see what I have lying about, definitley have some of the bits spare!

 

Chris

Much appreciated Chris, any chance of a copy of the swimming manual? I shall of course reimburse you for your materials time and trouble.

Nigel,

This is the manual...

http://www.ekmpowershop5.com/ekmps/shops/greenmachines/cvrtroyal-armoured-corps-trainingvolume-2d-and-m-486-p.asp

Chris

Chris,

I have that one already, although it has section 25 pages 169-171 Flotation Equipment, it does not have the illustration that you posted.

I do have the manual for swimming a CVRT though. Made me think there was more information available.

I therefore assumed that you had an additional publication that dealt with swimming.

Can i ask where you got the illustration of the propeller unit?

Nigel,

It may be that I have a different version, or I have pages that were removed by an ammendment. The propeller dwg is pg 187 in my book, I have pages 172 - 190. I'll send you a PM.

Chris

Nigel,

 

It may be that I have a different version, or I have pages that were removed by an ammendment. The propeller dwg is pg 187 in my book, I have pages 172 - 190. I'll send you a PM.

 

Chris

:tup::

I have seen a picture in a friend of mine's library of CVRT books of a swimming CVRT (don't remember the variant) with a pair of paddle steamer type padles attatched to the front sprockets. Probably an early experimental thing. Would be easy to mock up though.

There was an article on Scorpion in the last issue of CMV and the one of the problems with the propellers illustrated in Chris's picture is that there was nowhere to store them on the vehicle.

I have seen a picture in a friend of mine's library of CVRT books of a swimming CVRT (don't remember the variant) with a pair of paddle steamer type padles attatched to the front sprockets. Probably an early experimental thing. Would be easy to mock up though.

 

There was an article on Scorpion in the last issue of CMV and the one of the problems with the propellers illustrated in Chris's picture is that there was nowhere to store them on the vehicle.

Storage was a real issue. We had just a couple of small grenade bins on the outside of the turret, which were less than useless, and apart from the turret back bin and the back bin over the NBC pack hatch, just a couple of side bins inside the float screen. ISTR (Bazz probably remembers better) getting ammo boxes fitted in place of the grenade bins. This wasn't a trivial matter because we couldn't just hack and drill the aluminium armour: REME tasks because (as I think has been mentioned here before) the filings etc have a tendency to burn or some such.

Fitting large ammo boxes as bins was the norm: we mounted them either side of the commander on our Command Troop Ferrets. On the Sultans we had giant XPM cages built to occupy the roof.

When we ripped off the float screens, we immediately acquired Chieftain side bins which greatly improved the stowage situation.

I have to say that a generation later, I greatly approve of the improvements. My desktop wallpaper shows a Light Dragoons Scimitar at sunset and with the exception of the Rarden cannon, it is barely recognisable as Scorpion's younger brother.

I have seen a picture in a friend of mine's library of CVRT books of a swimming CVRT (don't remember the variant) with a pair of paddle steamer type padles attatched to the front sprockets. Probably an early experimental thing. Would be easy to mock up though.

 

There was an article on Scorpion in the last issue of CMV and the one of the problems with the propellers illustrated in Chris's picture is that there was nowhere to store them on the vehicle.

Well done Grasshopper you win the prize of a no expense paid holiday thumbing through your friends library until you find that picture and forward it to me:cool2:.