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Land Rover 110 Cam Shaft Woes


Surveyor

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Driving back up the M74 yesterday, the engine clicked for about a mile then 10 miles latter the engine stared braking the Land Rover, thankfully managed to get to the hard shoulder. No crunching sound like a timing belt jumping teeth.

The mechanic came out from Lockerbie and after a bit said the cam shaft was frozen.

Being a mechanical idiot any suggestions on how to try and free it or is it a garage job to strip down the engine.

Also trying to find where the engine number is as I do now it was replaced approximately 10 years ago by the MoD.

Thanks in advance

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  • 4 months later...

I got my friendly mechanic out yesterday, thankfully the camshaft turns but locks after 4 turns, we haven't started to dismantle the engine yet, the question he asked, its a 1986 Land Rover 110, is it like the old transit when the push rods for the tappits bends. 

Can any one help?

IMG_0753.JPG

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I have only known one push-rod bent - sort of bad 'S' shape , however that was as a result of a pile up of a cam lobe /follower roller /tappet slide.  Actually - I would have expected the rocker to snap first -  they are flame hardened at stem face but seem cast material - not forged, rocker snap before push-rod bends. . A long story but further investigations revealed the head had been off , (recent replaced head gasket) with some bad work.  I suspect you have a problem on a tappet-slide assembly - so rod could be bent. You may be lucky , just flat(s) on roller & camshaft not wrecked.

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52 minutes ago, ruxy said:

I have only known one push-rod bent - sort of bad 'S' shape , however that was as a result of a pile up of a cam lobe /follower roller /tappet slide.  Actually - I would have expected the rocker to snap first -  they are flame hardened at stem face but seem cast material - not forged, rocker snap before push-rod bends. . A long story but further investigations revealed the head had been off , (recent replaced head gasket) with some bad work.  I suspect you have a problem on a tappet-slide assembly - so rod could be bent. You may be lucky , just flat(s) on roller & camshaft not wrecked.

Many thanks, we just need to get an idea before dismantling as don't really want to take to a garage just yet

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I agree with ruxy, it is most likely a tappet slide problem. I have seen a cam follower roller break up in the past. If that's the case there will be no evidence of damage at the top end of the engine and you won't find the problem until the head is off and you start to remove the tappet slides and one of the rollers will have been destroyed. They are hardened and break up rather than develop flats. If that has happened you need to remove the camshaft to get all the bits out. From experience, if any bits are left in the gallery, they block the oil drain and the top end of the engine fills up! 

Good luck,

Barry

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24 minutes ago, john1950 said:

If you can get it in the dry, and start dismantling. There are people on this forum with the knowledge and will be prepared to talk you through it. Save on garage expense.

Thanks, just need to find a garage I can use, think my friend knows to a certain extent but hasn't worked on Land rovers for a while and needs an idea hence the question about tappits. will see if I can get one of those marquee shelters at the moment

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20 hours ago, john1950 said:

If you can get it in the dry, and start dismantling. There are people on this forum with the knowledge and will be prepared to talk you through it. Save on garage expense.

We are attempting to get the rocker cover off this weekend to see what we can see, weather permitting

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1 hour ago, Surveyor said:

We are attempting to get the rocker cover off this weekend to see what we can see, weather permitting

Yes , pointless fretting any longer - even in a snow storm removing the rocker cover will not cause further damage. With the cam rotation you have , with cover off - you should be able to get valve lash & rotate the push-rods with your fingers , if you can't then that would indicate a / the problem - if you have not already got a immediate visual. 

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3 minutes ago, ruxy said:

Yes , pointless fretting any longer - even in a snow storm removing the rocker cover will not cause further damage. With the cam rotation you have , with cover off - you should be able to get valve lash & rotate the push-rods with your fingers , if you can't then that would indicate a / the problem - if you have not already got a immediate visual. 

Many thanks, all help appreciated, just a relief the camshaft rotated even just a little bit and my mate Jim says he can here compression, as said its a long time since he worked on Land Rovers and we both need help, do have the parts manual so will copy those pages in case we get oil on them

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On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 10:51 AM, Surveyor said:

Many thanks, all help appreciated, just a relief the camshaft rotated even just a little bit and my mate Jim says he can here compression, as said its a long time since he worked on Land Rovers and we both need help, do have the parts manual so will copy those pages in case we get oil on them

Richard,

You mention rotating the 'camshaft'. Unless the timing cover is exposed, this is not possible, Do you mean the crankshaft, ie, turning the engine over? It is quite a simple engine really. I have rebuilt 100's of the petrol versions, but not personally been involved with the diesels. When in the early years of service there were serious reliability problems with the diesel engine, but that was about 24 years ago now and was sorted out.

Richard

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52 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

Richard,

You mention rotating the 'camshaft'. Unless the timing cover is exposed, this is not possible, Do you mean the crankshaft, ie, turning the engine over? It is quite a simple engine really. I have rebuilt 100's of the petrol versions, but not personally been involved with the diesels. When in the early years of service there were serious reliability problems with the diesel engine, but that was about 24 years ago now and was sorted out.

Richard

Richard

my standard but learning, is open bonnet yup an engine, i have just learnt to change oil and deisel, so if i explain thing as an idiot please understand I'm learning, i do feel in aw of people who get what looks unsalvagable then next looks brand new.

On the front of the engine is a 41 mm "nut" Jim says he can crank that for 4 turns then stops, he says it is compressiing, he has taken the. Top of the engine off and checked pistons and i think push rods and can't see a problem there, hence assumption of con rod, I'm on a drive and no cover. 

Jim is a professional mechanic and i trust him

Richard 

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15 minutes ago, john1950 said:

Once you have started keep going, you cannot hurt it. Take things off in order and keep like for like together. Plastic boxes are invaluable. Have you got a manual or Googled disasembly. Do not spend money unless you realy have to, You have support.

Yes have parts manual both civie and MoD, and boxes, unfortunately I'm not covered, looking for tent to Acquire tomorrow 

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Went to the Chemical plant at Burntisland twice it rained. I brought the Scotsman paper It rained every night. I fell out with the idiot planner at TNT on that job. I have delivered to the meat plant at Perth I used to hope it was raining to kill the smell. I also used to bring Lime up around Perth and went to the big laundry with hotel items. I tried to sleep overnight outside a quarry east of Perth and overhead they were pilot training and on the ground the hunters were out with 12 bores. It also rained. You need cover. 

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57 minutes ago, Surveyor said:

Richard

my standard but learning, is open bonnet yup an engine, i have just learnt to change oil and deisel, so if i explain thing as an idiot please understand I'm learning, i do feel in aw of people who get what looks unsalvagable then next looks brand new.

On the front of the engine is a 41 mm "nut" Jim says he can crank that for 4 turns then stops, he says it is compressiing, he has taken the. Top of the engine off and checked pistons and i think push rods and can't see a problem there, hence assumption of con rod, I'm on a drive and no cover. 

Jim is a professional mechanic and i trust him

Richard 

Hi Richard,

I think you are on a crash course of the workings of an engine and hopefully your mechanic will explain it to you in laymans terms!  If the head was off ( you say he took the top off unless you mean the rocker cover) and the engine turned over, albeit 4 revolutions, and all the pistons went up and down, then it seems odd that it is locking up (which I assume is what you are saying). As has been said, your guy will gradually narrow down the problem.

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54 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

Hi Richard,

I think you are on a crash course of the workings of an engine and hopefully your mechanic will explain it to you in laymans terms!  If the head was off ( you say he took the top off unless you mean the rocker cover) and the engine turned over, albeit 4 revolutions, and all the pistons went up and down, then it seems odd that it is locking up (which I assume is what you are saying). As has been said, your guy will gradually narrow down the problem.

Richard

Thanks always believe learn as you go, as I was 100 miles away and my son was shown but not sure when I called jim need to get idea not sure, would have preferred to been there to clarify, remember reading a book re submarines in second world war the CO had the engineer explain till the CO understood how the bits worked, same here.

Richard

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Strange - it seems a unusual cause.

I can't see it being a con-rod bent , that would take something like a hyro. lock and you seem not to have been wading. It is significant that you can turn 4 engine revolutions - however that seems just short of a full cycle.  Then I assume you are cranking 4 turns back to try it again.  I doubt if you have smashed a 5 mb crank, they are a real heavy lump - I have shared my office desk knee hole with a ply boxed new spare for several years.  You would soon feel back-lash if the crank had gone. Reading between the lines , it seems the cylinder head is now possibly removed and that would eliminate a jam-up on the valve gear  (seized valve(s) + no bent push-rods to report.. Just seems to leave a smashed up roller tappet slide assembly and they are easily pulled (if the head is off) and I suppose a roller or bits of a roller could repeatedly jam in the same way at the same place. At the start you stated no noise like a cam belt stripped , however that department is a distinct possibility. but the end result does not indicate and I can't see how a belt that is parting could do it.

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