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Restoration of FMW Matey Dockyard Truck (otherwise knows as Navy Hog Truck?)


MTH83

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I posted an introduction a few months ago now and received a few nice comments on my post -

(Introduction, new member! FMW Matey Dockyard Truck owner!)

I am well aware these two trucks have been around the block as I'd seen them appearing up for sale on a number of occasions, it seems that they've been given a lick of paint a few times (probably Hammerite by the look of things!)

The one which we are working on first is a runner (well it was when it arrived with us!) we've taken out all the glass, all wiring, interior, load bed, engine, box and pretty much everything else. We're back on it next week taking off the cab, leaf springs, steering column, rear diff etc to have the paint removed and have all components powder coated to the correct standard as they should be.

 

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As anyone who has ever come across these vehicles before will be aware they are a very rare vehicle and there is no information anywhere online for them, they don't exist on the internet other than on this forum and Ebay!

If you know of anyone who has owned these vehicles previously or has any information that could be of use to me and you could point them in my direction that would be much appreciated, I have all the information from the DVLA to road register the truck (I'm concentrating on one for now!) but anyone who has been through this process and could offer any info that would be amazing!

 

 

Here are a couple of pictures of where we are with the job as it stands!

 

Thank you in advance for any words of wisdom!

Matt

 

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Has it been road registered before? If so you may find it's still on the DVLA books, so no problem. If it is a new register you will need year of construction as there are obvious advantages to get it accepted as a classic. If DVLA kick off, at least one I know has been road registered before. I'll try and get the index number for you.

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They look like a really handy truck. Am I right in thinking they are mostly Ford engine and running gear

Yes that's right, I believe FMW raided the parts bins at Ford during the construction of these little trucks.

Its a Ford Crossflow engine (presumed 1300) The fuel tank and brake servo are from a Classic Mini Estate pick up!?

Lokking forward to sharing our progress!

Thank you for your interest!

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Has it been road registered before? If so you may find it's still on the DVLA books, so no problem. If it is a new register you will need year of construction as there are obvious advantages to get it accepted as a classic. If DVLA kick off, at least one I know has been road registered before. I'll try and get the index number for you.

 

Hi Tony,

We're led to believe that on paper much like the rest of what FMW did the trucks do not exist. One of them we are breaking for parts, the other ran ok until we started work on it! Royal Navy plate states 45RN49

 

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Here is the data plate with build date etc.

 

I've got the DVLA forms to register it; as it was ex military it should be a little easier however struggling to find any evidence that it actually exists!?

I would hope there is a record of it somewhere!

The search continues!

I've seen them road registered before so it must be possible.... somehow.

Thank you for your help and will keep you posted!

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Silly question and you probably have but try a FOI to the MoD as you have the registration number, might work

 

A very valid question!

We did send one and they got back to us saying there was no information about it and to contact RLC museum - ongoing!

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They seem to have good survival skills out of 6 that seem to have been made at least 4 are still around.

 

There were Lots more than 6 made, more like many Hundreds, they were made for many years, the early ones had Ford 10 hp engines. Some later were also LPG fuelled. I used to see lots of them at the MOD Disposal sales, they are Not particularly rare, perhaps not often seen as they were bought for use off road on farms/market gardens and estates, they still turn up for sale on ebay, a few have been restored and road registered.

The reason no info is available is they were purely designed as a works tug for use within Naval Dockyards and shore based Depots, even though they had a Navy registration number they were Not for general road use, so they were regarded as plant & equipment, same as a forklift truck, Not a road going vehicle hence not included in military vehicle record archives

Edited by Nick Johns
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A while ago I did find one of these in a scrap yard in Somerset. civy reg no., and I was told it had a 1600cc diesel in it.

Don't ask me where the yard was as I have no idea, but I do know there was three yards next to each other belonging to different members of the same family! Might jog someones memory?

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There were Lots more than 6 made, more like many Hundreds, they were made for many years, the early ones had Ford 10 hp engines. Some later were also LPG fuelled. I used to see lots of them at the MOD Disposal sales, they are Not particularly rare, perhaps not often seen as they were bought for use off road on farms/market gardens and estates, they still turn up for sale on ebay, a few have been restored and road registered.

The reason no info is available is they were purely designed as a works tug for use within Naval Dockyards and shore based Depots, even though they had a Navy registration number they were Not for general road use, so they were regarded as plant & equipment, same as a forklift truck, Not a road going vehicle hence not included in military vehicle record archives

 

Thank you Nick for a very informative post - back on it tomorrow attending to take of the cab!

Hopefully we'll get it road registered as it will be a pain to trailer around as I'm only 33 and licence not endorsed to pull a trailer over 500kg!

Planning to do a good job of it - can't see why they'd register others and not this one! Best start filling in that paperwork!

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  • 1 month later...

Matt,

I used to visit Faslane quite often in the 70's and 80's and these little trucks were quite a common sight. I am not surprised that there are no photographs turning up showing them in service - being caught with a camera in a Navy dockyard in those days was almost a hanging offence. I used to see them delivering stores to the jetty area - bulk stock arrived on site by 40 foot Artic and broken down in the main store. The FMW's were then used to move spares, clothing, paint etc. to each of the ships sitting alongside the jetty. This job needed a small vehicle with a tight turning circle since the jetty was narrow, with obstacles such as cranes, mooring ropes, power cables, water pipes etc. When MARPOL came in and we couldn't throw anything over the side, they were also used to remove brown paper gash sacks from the jetty to the skips at the disposal facility. They were also used by grounds maintenance staff - two men and a brush type jobs - before these jobs were mostly contracted out in the nineties.

As has been said earlier, these trucks were classed as plant (MHE) and were not meant to be driven on public highways. An FOI query has been mentioned, but I doubt if this would have yielded much information. Unlike Army vehicles which changed hands quite often and had a colourful history, these trucks were usually issued to one site and stayed there till they were disposed of - unless they were somewhere like Portland or Eaglescliffe which closed down, when they would have transferred elsewhere.

FMW engineering were a major supplier to MOD - in the late 80's I transferred to a depot which was running a dozen FMW TT40 tractors and over 100 FMW trailers (solid wheels, 1 ton capacity and no brakes) which we towed around the site 4 at a time. These FMW tractors were replaced in the nineties with a more modern version of the TT40, but they were branded Electricar TT40. I don't know whether or not Electricar bought out FMW or whether they made the TT40 under licence, but it was clear that FMW was gone by that time.

1996 was a bit of a game changer in that MOD sold off all of these type of plant and leased them back under contract. At that time we were told to hand over all of the plant documents to the contractor (Cowie Interleasing/Barloworld). If your FMW was still in service at this time then the docs would have been lost to MOD and this might have been a reason why your FOI request failed.

 

Hopes this helps - Regards - David

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, my name is Terry, I'm new to this forum and only came across it when casually looking up FMW. On this subject I can offer some information, memory permitting, as I was indirectly involved for a number of years.

 

FMW was a small engineering company in Verwood, Dorset, formed some time in the early 70's by Ferguson, Mears and Wade. Mike Wade was the motivation behind the company, I think Mears ran the workshop and Ferguson left but I could have these two mixed up. They were later joined by Jim Riley who supported Mike in sales and management. They made a wide range of trailers for the MOD, the little RN truck nicknamed the "Gofer" - that is what we all called it, the Navy may have had another name (shown in your pictures) and the TT40. I worked for a Ford Power Products dealer - Hendy Lennox Power Products based in Chandlers Ford and was the guy who sold them the Ford engines and components.

 

The Gopher was in production, I think, when I became involved in 1976. These early units had the Escort engine and gearbox and I think the Transit front axle, the rear axle being a Hamworthy unit from Poole (in turn having a Ford Truck differential unit). At some time I think they used the 1600cc cross-flow petrol engine (Part of the Ford "Kent" engine range) and may have even used the early Fiesta diesel. I can't remember what gearboxes were used by then as the rear wheel drive Escort had ceased production.

 

The TT40 came into being by being tendered for in an MOD 5 year "best buy" program. I helped Mike specify the prototype using a Transit diesel - the IDI version fitted with ether start - and a 3 speed auto box from the Jaguar (modified tail-shaft). No one had built a tow tractor with a car box before, the result was highly successful, even to the extent it was able to tow the opposition out of trouble. Some time in the 80's FMW was sold, the originators and Jim retired and the new owners failed to make anything of the company which was subsequently swallowed up by Electricars.

 

Electricars had minimal facilities so we at Hendy Power made the TT40 under sub-contract for Electricars. The vehicle underwent a complete redesign by our Chief Engineer Tony Uzzell who made the initial design much more acceptable to drive. All fabricated parts for the manufacture were made locally and assembled in our workshop, we even took one off the end of the production line and drove it to - I think Atherstone (Electricars HQ) - for Children in Need. I believe the last units were made in 1995, not sure as I was made redundant as the company was winding down it's engineering and being responsible for all engineering activities my services were no linger required! We were justly proud of these little vehicles. Some of the TT40's were "flame proof" having an exhaust cooling system and hydraulic start.

 

I don't believe any more of the little "Gopher's" were made post the sale off by FMW.

If I may be able to help with any info in your restoration, drop me a line and I'll see what I can remember!

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Hi, my name is Terry, I'm new to this forum and only came across it when casually looking up FMW. On this subject I can offer some information, memory permitting, as I was indirectly involved for a number of years.

 

FMW was a small engineering company in Verwood, Dorset, formed some time in the early 70's by Ferguson, Mears and Wade. Mike Wade was the motivation behind the company, I think Mears ran the workshop and Ferguson left but I could have these two mixed up. They were later joined by Jim Riley who supported Mike in sales and management. They made a wide range of trailers for the MOD, the little RN truck nicknamed the "Gofer" - that is what we all called it, the Navy may have had another name (shown in your pictures) and the TT40. I worked for a Ford Power Products dealer - Hendy Lennox Power Products based in Chandlers Ford and was the guy who sold them the Ford engines and components.

 

The Gopher was in production, I think, when I became involved in 1976. These early units had the Escort engine and gearbox and I think the Transit front axle, the rear axle being a Hamworthy unit from Poole (in turn having a Ford Truck differential unit). At some time I think they used the 1600cc cross-flow petrol engine (Part of the Ford "Kent" engine range) and may have even used the early Fiesta diesel. I can't remember what gearboxes were used by then as the rear wheel drive Escort had ceased production.

 

The TT40 came into being by being tendered for in an MOD 5 year "best buy" program. I helped Mike specify the prototype using a Transit diesel - the IDI version fitted with ether start - and a 3 speed auto box from the Jaguar (modified tail-shaft). No one had built a tow tractor with a car box before, the result was highly successful, even to the extent it was able to tow the opposition out of trouble. Some time in the 80's FMW was sold, the originators and Jim retired and the new owners failed to make anything of the company which was subsequently swallowed up by Electricars.

 

Electricars had minimal facilities so we at Hendy Power made the TT40 under sub-contract for Electricars. The vehicle underwent a complete redesign by our Chief Engineer Tony Uzzell who made the initial design much more acceptable to drive. All fabricated parts for the manufacture were made locally and assembled in our workshop, we even took one off the end of the production line and drove it to - I think Atherstone (Electricars HQ) - for Children in Need. I believe the last units were made in 1995, not sure as I was made redundant as the company was winding down it's engineering and being responsible for all engineering activities my services were no linger required! We were justly proud of these little vehicles. Some of the TT40's were "flame proof" having an exhaust cooling system and hydraulic start.

 

I don't believe any more of the little "Gopher's" were made post the sale off by FMW.

If I may be able to help with any info in your restoration, drop me a line and I'll see what I can remember!

 

Terry,

I remember the original FMW TT40 with the Ether start. It caused us no end of trouble - not the device itself but the supply of the ether to run it. The vehicle had a plastic reservoir holding the ether and it was topped up using a "Type F" can of Holt's Start Pilot. If I remember correctly, you lifted a spring loaded cap on the bottle and screwed on the Start Pilot can, which filled it up. We ordered these cans from COD Bicester and they were regularly out of stock. You could buy the aerosol spray type can anywhere (which we were forbidden to use in Cat C hazard areas) but the Type F screw-on cans were special order and hard to get hold of. Like you said, the later Electricars version was a much better tow tractor to drive.

 

Regards - David

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Thank you so much for all the comments above, there is a lot of information there, some of which we were in the dark about! Particularly the background and history of FMW as a company.

I am fairly far on with the project in terms of the preparation work, I had seen these same trucks (I have 2!) being restored in part over the last few years, if you google the truck many of the images on there are of my 2 trucks in various different states, the one running one I have is now completely stripped, it has been blasted and powdercoated and is not ready for us to start re-assembly. 

The delay has  been the running gear as this is fairly complex to dismantle with the rear diff and axles, i am also trying to source some new tyres which is proving fairly costly! 

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  • 1 month later...
On 13/11/2017 at 8:54 PM, Firedamper said:

Hi. How far have you got with your project? I have just started to restore one myself.  

Nick

It’s in lots of bits at the moment Nick.

Fully dismantled any body parts, cab is off, load bed is off the chassis and it’s all been blasted, repaired and powder coated.

We have split the wheels to remove the tyres, they’ve gone off to be coated along with all the leaf springs and brackets etc.

Need to get the wheels and springs back before we can start to re-build, I suppose they are holding the job up!

I do have a second truck which I bought to canibalise but is still complete, will see how I feel about it when I’ve got a little further with this one! 

How is yours going?

As mine is so stripped I might be able to help with any info you need?

 

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Morning.  I'm a bit further behind than you are. I've got the bed off and have started stripping the cab.  How did you get on with the wheels? Tyres are expensive aren't they! Did you separate the rims into two pieces?   I managed to find a hamworthy manual for the rear axle, some good info in there for the oil and capacities etc. 

If you decide to let your 'spare' one go ,let me know I would be interested.   

My interest is from having been in the Royal Navy ,these trucks were everywhere around the dockyards in various forms ( covered load areas , custom trailers etc) we used to use them like taxis! They never left the dockyards hence limited photos and info! 

Cheers. Nick

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I've been doing mine in what little spare time I have so it tends to happen in waves - get the bits off, take them to be stripped and powder coated, put them in a pile till next time! The pile of finished parts is almost complete!

I got the wheels separated by a mobile tyre guy I use, he charged me £15 each to get them off (for a total of 2 hours work plus traveling I didn't think £60 was bad) 

As the tyres are designed for a forklift type vehicle they are fitted in such a way that you could remove the tyre whilst the wheel is still attached to the vehicle, hence the strange construction of them.

I was quoted £275+vat per tyre for Continental as these were the only ones recommended for road use, I got some in the end from here https://www.bigtyres.co.uk/tyres/forklift-truck/pneumatic/6-50-10-10-ply-solideal-extra-deep-tt-inner-tube-flap.html at £388.80 inc vat for all 4! (and I'm really happy with them)

On mine there are 2 different types of wheel, there were 2 where there was a then ring holding the front part on, then when that was removed we were able to get the front part of the wheel off and then the tyre. The other 2 had a thicker 'O' ring on and the split ring was in 2 pieces. All the bits are now at the powder coaters!

In terms of running the trucks both have a different rear diff, I presume one of them (my spare) could be a different version of the truck. My 1'st truck's diff is slightly rounded, the other is square/rectangular in shape!

Great to hear some stories about your experiences with the trucks, I've never undertaken a project like this before and I am ensuring I do everything properly as no expense has been spared I hope to keep this truck for the next 40 years of its life!

I have the paperwork from DVLA to apply for to road register the vehicle, it was number 45RN49 before and I believe it should be relatively straightforward to register it as something that has been previously owned by the military (even though there is absolutely no record of it's existence!)

Would be happy to discuss my second truck if you want to give me a shout on 07894988789 or matt@starinnthecity.co.uk 

Cheers and good luck!

 

 

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59 minutes ago, MTH83 said:

 

I have the paperwork from DVLA to apply for to road register the vehicle, it was number 45RN49 before and I believe it should be relatively straightforward to register it as something that has been previously owned by the military (even though there is absolutely no record of it's existence!)

                ----------

I can see problems registering it if there is no MOD release paperwork, that is its official receipt of sale from the Military,   I see from earlier pics there is a plate with year of manufacture, that is very important requirment for dvla to register it

 

 

 

Edited by Nick Johns
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