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Help! trying to start a B60...without success!


jim fl4

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Hi All, I'm in the latter stages of rebuilding a B60 and now its all back together I'm trying to start it. Since it was missing its ancillaries I've had to source a dissy, coil, junction box, carb etc. Got a decent spark, fuel in carb but can only get an odd pop when its cranked over. I'm thinking its probably the ignition timing, read the excellent 'ignition matters' pdf. With the dissy, it looks like BOTH points are open at the same time, albeit for a short time, is this correct. any thoughts would be most welcome :).

 

Jim

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With the dissy, it looks like BOTH points are open at the same time, albeit for a short time, is this correct.

Jim yes that will happen for a very short time as one pair just opens as the other is just about to close.

 

Are the points synchronised? Are there still blobs of paint on the locking screws? If not it suggests someone has been meddling & mucked it up.

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Jim yes that will happen for a very short time as one pair just opens as the other is just about to close.

 

Are the points synchronised? Are there still blobs of paint on the locking screws? If not it suggests someone has been meddling & mucked it up.

 

Hi Clive, thanks, As I turn the spindle I can get both points to be fully open, but only for an instant before 1 begins to close. I have just noticed that the advise on synchronising the points in the emer manual is different to the TSD 702. I have until now been following the TSD one which tells to commence sycro using No. 1 at TDC while the emer says to start with No.6 piston at TDC to set the fixed points first! BTW the paint is long gone.

 

Cheers, Jim.

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I am sure that someone better qualified than me will be along soon but I think that a common error with B60 timing is that it is often 180 degrees out.

 

Thanks Topdog, I've heard this also. Thought I had followed the manual but by problems sound like its out a lot! just an odd fire from one cylinder.

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Hi Clive, sorry for the late reply, its a No.1 mk 2. Actually I have a few dissys, (all the same type) and I'm making a good one up from them! They are all missing the felt rubbing pad though but that's no prob if I can get it going. I hear the calls about the Jolley system but I've read that first off the original system needs to be operating before going electronic, whats your thoughts? Also, found a thread by 'grumpy' about how to syncro the points using a protractor. I'm going to be doing that tomorrow I hope.

 

Thanks

 

Jim

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Get yourself a Jolley Engineering Electronic Ignition kit for a B60 and throw the points in the bin.

http://www.classicheads.com/Electronic_Ignition.html

 

Cheers,

Terry

 

Being an ex mechanic I have found it a joy to work on my ferret going back to the basic plugs and points. I have always thought that with everything set as it should be the old system works fine and has given me great satisfaction when she fires up. She purrs merrily and doesn't miss a beat.

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Jim you say you have a Mk 2 (Lucas) but that doesn't have a felt pad that is only on the Mk 2/1 (Delco-Remy)

 

I think are right to get it going as best you can as nature intended. I would feel uneasy introducing something new into the system in the hope of making everything alright. Change it once it is sort of running then you will have the satisfaction of seeing the improvement. I favour doing things one stage at a time, just suppose there was some issue with the module then you have two issues to sort out & one complicates the diagnosis of the other.

 

What are you working from an EMER WHEELED VEHICLES or an EMER POWER? The detail varies between them.

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Jim you say you have a Mk 2 (Lucas) but that doesn't have a felt pad that is only on the Mk 2/1 (Delco-Remy)

 

I think are right to get it going as best you can as nature intended. I would feel uneasy introducing something new into the system in the hope of making everything alright. Change it once it is sort of running then you will have the satisfaction of seeing the improvement. I favour doing things one stage at a time, just suppose there was some issue with the module then you have two issues to sort out & one complicates the diagnosis of the other.

 

What are you working from an EMER WHEELED VEHICLES or an EMER POWER? The detail varies between them.

 

Arhh, that would be why there's no lube pad then :), Yes they are all the common Lucas screened Dissies off ferrets. Up to now I have been working of the RR TSD 702 manual but, latterly been pointed in the direction of the Unit repair 403 (the Australian manual). It gives a different account of certain things...as compared to TSD 702, with regard to timing, synchronisation etc. Going back to the dissy at the moment and going to get it syncro'd as best I can and then hopefully refit it correctly to the engine. I think I got the oil pump back right with the dissy tab running lengthways with the engine whilst the No. 1 piston was at TDC on firing stroke....well hope so :). Have you any top tips for refitting of the dissy??

 

Thanks Clive,

 

Jim.

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Ok so you have got EMEI (AUST) VEHICLE N 403, I think it is telling you the same as in TSD 702 but that confuses the issue with a preamble about having previously set the point gaps on No.1, it then moves on to adjusting from No. 6.

 

The segment method is described in EMER POWER S 523. You have to watch it as there are diagrams for No. 1 Mk 2 & Mk 2/1 for both that differ slightly & equivalent Mk 2 & Mk 2/1 for 8-cylindeer as well.

 

I think there is something odd on the Pig B60 in that it hasn't got a panel to see the timing marks. I've not had to set the synchro, but after 4 head changes I quite often loose where I am. So when assembled I put a coat hanger in No.1 cylinder feel when it is sort of TDC then rotate the rotor arm on shaft to point to No. 1 in the cap. Then try running it, if it doesn't run then I turn the distributor through 360 degrees.

 

When it runs & is warmed up I adjust the timing for best smooth running. I've never done flywheel marks, strobes, points opening & lights on/off. Modern fuel is not the same as it was in the 1950s so setting things to those standards seems to me to be a bit inappropriate in this day & age.

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Thanks again to Clive and also Richard for their valued advice. I have noted the dissy cap firing flat for number 1 piston, (rotor arm at roughly 5 oclock) which ties with No1 piston at TDC with both valves closed, I assume this is the correct stroke? Of course, there is still the chance it maybe the carb. or something else being the problem but I'm most down on the ignition and the cobbled together dissy and leads but I do get a good spark from all leads. Glad I'm not having to fix it for Monday!! :)

 

Just another question to Richard, is the refitting of the oil pump, ie, the correcct meshing of the pump gear to the cam gear as in the RR manual vital? I have not meddled with the timing gears...thankfully :).

 

Cheers

 

Jim

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Thanks again to Clive and also Richard for their valued advice. I have noted the dissy cap firing flat for number 1 piston, (rotor arm at roughly 5 oclock) which ties with No1 piston at TDC with both valves closed, I assume this is the correct stroke? Of course, there is still the chance it maybe the carb. or something else being the problem but I'm most down on the ignition and the cobbled together dissy and leads but I do get a good spark from all leads. Glad I'm not having to fix it for Monday!! :)

 

Just another question to Richard, is the refitting of the oil pump, ie, the correcct meshing of the pump gear to the cam gear as in the RR manual vital? I have not meddled with the timing gears...thankfully :).

 

Cheers

 

Jim

double check you've not got the dizzy 180 degrees out and check both sets of points for continuity ,could be a problem under the base plate in the dizzy.

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Hi All, Upon checking the syncro of the twin points found them to be slightly out so after careful resetting as per 'Grumpy's' excellent tutorial, quess what....Yep she started up great :):) No rad on at the moment so only ran a few seconds. The rocker cover was still off and whilst oil filled the cups of the push rods no oil emanated from the rocker shaft, should I be worried anyone?

 

Thanks to everyone for your comments, everyone has helped :).

 

I will bump the thread I used for the syncro incase might help any other readers.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

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Ok so you have got EMEI (AUST) VEHICLE N 403, I think it is telling you the same as in TSD 702 but that confuses the issue with a preamble about having previously set the point gaps on No.1, it then moves on to adjusting from No. 6.

 

The segment method is described in EMER POWER S 523. You have to watch it as there are diagrams for No. 1 Mk 2 & Mk 2/1 for both that differ slightly & equivalent Mk 2 & Mk 2/1 for 8-cylindeer as well.

 

I think there is something odd on the Pig B60 in that it hasn't got a panel to see the timing marks. I've not had to set the synchro, but after 4 head changes I quite often loose where I am. So when assembled I put a coat hanger in No.1 cylinder feel when it is sort of TDC then rotate the rotor arm on shaft to point to No. 1 in the cap. Then try running it, if it doesn't run then I turn the distributor through 360 degrees.

 

When it runs & is warmed up I adjust the timing for best smooth running. I've never done flywheel marks, strobes, points opening & lights on/off. Modern fuel is not the same as it was in the 1950s so setting things to those standards seems to me to be a bit inappropriate in this day & age.

 

 

But that would surely bring you back to where you started from?

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