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Thread: Contemporary Military vehicles.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Default Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Can someone, preferably who is serving or who has served in the Army, explain to me why after the old land rovers in Afghanistan were criticised for having little or no armour protection, many of the new army vehicles have an open frames? I know the new vehicles have mine proof hulls from beneath but I have always wondered why troops are given vehicles with open sides like the 'Coyte TSV', vulnerable, I assume to small arms fire?
    Graham Info wanted on: Ronald Mosley ex Wiltshire Regiment DRs.
    Regular visitor to Flers area. Recently re discovered 'CHORLEY TRENCH' near 'THE NAB', my local town next to 'HEALEY NAB.
    WW2 sidecar outfits especially Norton Big 4 and Royal Enfield motorcycles.
    Owner and builder of Royal Enfield WD/C with Norton Big 4 style sidecar.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Can't provide an 'official' point of view, but I understood that the British Army prefers better situational awareness. Even with improved cameras and digital sensors there are still limits when fully enclosed in an armoured vehicle. I did recently see an interview with a serving soldier about the Jackal and he was asked if he felt too exposed. His response was that he was reasonably well covered by the vehicle armour and this was supplemented by the latest version of body armour.

    It's worth noting that the RPG is very difficult to protect against (even the older versions you see on the TV let alone the current version RPG 9). Hence the proliferation of add on armour hits seen on all the vehicles sent to Afghanistan, the so called Theater Entry Standard. The combination of RPG and hollow charge IED means that the latest infantry fighting vehicles end up around (or above) 30 tonnes FRES Scout etc. These larger around vehicles present their own logistic challenges (let alone cost restrictions) Even the Challenger 2 is not immune, although they are proof against RPG there has been at least one instance of one being damaged by an IED. IIRC sadly the driver suffered severe leg injuries.

    However I remain to be convinced that the current mix of vehicles and the resurrection of the light cavalry/yeomanry is because it is the right combination for the current threats the army faces. I suspect it is more just a way to use what's left over from the various Urgent Operational Requirements from Iraq and Afghanistan. An example being repurposing of the Warthog for some artillery role and a return to the Viking for the marines.

    i'm interested in what others have to say.
    julian

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    19,488

    Default Re: Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Nothing new. In the early days of Northern Ireland, Series Land Rovers ran open topped with the crew looking outwards. The system was previously used in Aden, Cyprus Malaya, etc. Mark 1 Eyeball is still the main battlefield sensor. Even with modern kit, the position of Top Cover, ie look out and around is still considered vital. It is the classic dillema, the armoured vehicle can protect you, on the other hand you can't see or deal with the people sneacking up on you as your visibility is restircted when close down, espcially in FIBUA
    Leading the charge!
    Jeeps posed for pictures Dodges were to busy working. I'm not mad! My voices say I'm sane! And I am not in the pay of Jersey tourisim No longer a 101. Now a Dodge WC54. If there is one thing makes me angry, its all the Incredible Hulk Films!! (Tony Banner)

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Thank you both for your informative replies. It all increases my admiration of our forces and my dislike of senior politicians.
    Graham Info wanted on: Ronald Mosley ex Wiltshire Regiment DRs.
    Regular visitor to Flers area. Recently re discovered 'CHORLEY TRENCH' near 'THE NAB', my local town next to 'HEALEY NAB.
    WW2 sidecar outfits especially Norton Big 4 and Royal Enfield motorcycles.
    Owner and builder of Royal Enfield WD/C with Norton Big 4 style sidecar.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Westbury Wiltshire
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    Can someone, preferably who is serving or who has served in the Army, explain to me why after the old land rovers in Afghanistan were criticised for having little or no armour protection, many of the new army vehicles have an open frames? I know the new vehicles have mine proof hulls from beneath but I have always wondered why troops are given vehicles with open sides like the 'Coyte TSV', vulnerable, I assume to small arms fire?
    The Coyote & Jackal are actually armoured vehicles with composite armour on all 4 sides and mine blast protection underneath, the composite armour is effective against small arms fire, I have seen armour panels that have taken hits from small arms and the bullets did not penetrate. If you take a look at the Supacat website you can download a spec sheet on the Jackal showing the armour and mine blast protection.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Contemporary Military vehicles.

    Two words

    Gordon Gentle

    Vintage Vehicle Specialists


    if a man built it a man can fix it.....

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