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Thread: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

  1. #231
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by fv1609 View Post
    Is this the same?
    hi Clive,
    According to official sources, the Aldershot was 40 foot wide and 38 foot long with height to top ridge of 18 foot. Framework weighed 2,600lbs and canvas was 1,000lbs. It took 40 men 90 mins to erect.
    Richard Farrant

    1943 Bedford QLD - 1941 BSA WM20 - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk.2
    MVT no. 1087 - IMPS no. 57 - AMVCS hon. member and Comms. officer
    KVE President and Newsletter Editor

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  3. #232
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Richard have you got any pictures? In what era did you come across them? The extract I posted is from the SCRDE Colchester 1973 catalogue. There is a slightly longer thing, a Shelter Portable No.33 but does not quite match Lizzie's picture, the SP No.2 seems to tie in with the features quite well I thought.
    Clive Elliott

    Always wanted old British Army publications of any period (the older the better) eg AC, ACI, AEMI, AESP, AO, COSA, CP, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, ETS, JSP, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications in paper or fiche.

  4. #233
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by fv1609 View Post
    Richard have you got any pictures? In what era did you come across them? The extract I posted is from the SCRDE Colchester 1973 catalogue. There is a slightly longer thing, a Shelter Portable No.33 but does not quite match Lizzie's picture, the SP No.2 seems to tie in with the features quite well I thought.
    Clive
    The Aldershot shelter was used in WW2, may pre-date it to. It is detailed in one of the red War Office books on REME, which relates experience gained in wartime. Detailed drawing in it, framework fits the Libya one to a T.
    Richard Farrant

    1943 Bedford QLD - 1941 BSA WM20 - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk.2
    MVT no. 1087 - IMPS no. 57 - AMVCS hon. member and Comms. officer
    KVE President and Newsletter Editor

  5. #234
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Farrant View Post
    Clive
    The Aldershot shelter was used in WW2, may pre-date it to. It is detailed in one of the red War Office books on REME, which relates experience gained in wartime. Detailed drawing in it, framework fits the Libya one to a T.
    Thank you Richard and Clive. Now we all know. 'Aldershot' it is. I think perhaps you'd have been hard-pressed to find 40 'willing' pairs of REME hands to put the things up 'quickly'! They'd of had to 'rope' in the squadron troops too, methinks especially as I know that when Ajax 2RTR, as a lone squadron, first was stationed in D'Aosta Barracks where the 'Aldershots' had to be errected, the squadron LAD was a lot less than 40 strong, i.e, just a 'Fitter's Section'. Maybe the 'Aldershots' had already been erected prior to their arrival, perhaps by 'barrack services' (joke!) or was there a previous unit that had vacated?
    Aldershot. Home of the British Army. How appropriate for a shelter (home) name in the desert.

  6. #235
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    I can certainly see the likeness to the Aldershot & for those who don't have the REME book I attach a scan.

    The thing that worries me is that the diagram shows on each side a pair of "windows" in each of the three sections on each side, whereas the Libyan ones have a larger single window in each of the three sections (as does SP No.2)

    The diagram shows no windows in the next upper sections yet windows are present on the Libyan ones & SP No.2.

    The diagram shows a window either side of the entrance, but on both the Libyan ones & SP No.2 there seem to be no such windows.

    It may be too small a detail to record on the diagram but there are no roof ventilators, although quite basic diagrams of wartime large tents & marquees show them. Difficult to see but some are just discernible of the Libyan ones & SP No.2.

    Although my picture of Shelter Portable No.2 comes from a 1973 publication it doesn't preclude it from being wartime as the book includes some wartime marquees. I note that the REME wartime book includes SP No.4, so it seems feasible that SP No.2 might have been around back then.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Clive Elliott

    Always wanted old British Army publications of any period (the older the better) eg AC, ACI, AEMI, AESP, AO, COSA, CP, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, ETS, JSP, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications in paper or fiche.

  7. #236
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by fv1609 View Post
    I don't think it can be BC as 43 BC 71 - 99 BC 99 was not used.

    BG makes more sense & would make it a signals truck which makes the basic vehicle Bridge Class 4, but some fitted with certain installations were Bridge Class 5. So are they different vehicles or has it changed the type of radio installation between photos?
    I did say we were going to get back to Tripolitania after the Aldershot shelters in Cyrenaica but I just couldn't resist another one from 'there' and this time, its a K9 again! Notice its an FFW and it has a Bridge Class 7. Oh.
    Nor am I going to pretend that the G in the VRN is really a C and I'm not going to show you another (as two colour photos of it, front and rear appear earlier in this thread) with both C and G in the VRN (no wonder I'm confused), and, I'm not going to show you another Tripolitania District K9 which may or may not be FFW with a ..... Bridge Class 9 . It was Libya, afterall.
    Photo by CH Bloxham REME
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2RTR Ajax K9 FFW Cyrenaica -b-1959-61-Photo by CH Bloxham REME.jpg  


  8. #237
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by fv1609 View Post
    I can certainly see the likeness to the Aldershot & for those who don't have the REME book I attach a scan.

    The thing that worries me is that the diagram shows on each side a pair of "windows" in each of the three sections on each side, whereas the Libyan ones have a larger single window in each of the three sections (as does SP No.2)

    The diagram shows no windows in the next upper sections yet windows are present on the Libyan ones & SP No.2.

    The diagram shows a window either side of the entrance, but on both the Libyan ones & SP No.2 there seem to be no such windows.

    It may be too small a detail to record on the diagram but there are no roof ventilators, although quite basic diagrams of wartime large tents & marquees show them. Difficult to see but some are just discernible of the Libyan ones & SP No.2.

    Although my picture of Shelter Portable No.2 comes from a 1973 publication it doesn't preclude it from being wartime as the book includes some wartime marquees. I note that the REME wartime book includes SP No.4, so it seems feasible that SP No.2 might have been around back then.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scan0144.jpg 
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ID:	123404

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2RTR LAD REME Wavell Bks workshops Benghazi 1961-b-Photo by John Empson REMEb.jpg 
Views:	122 
Size:	78.5 KB 
ID:	123406

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	123405
    So its not the 'Aldershot' after all!!! I rather liked the shelter being that, but now we know the shelter is actually the Shelter Portable No.2. Does the Shelter Portable No.2 have a more 'familiar' 'handle'?
    Can we see the scale drawing for that 'Aldershot' too, please? The Shelter Portable No.2.
    Last edited by BlueBelle; 17-02-2017 at 20:05.

  9. #238
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBelle View Post
    So its not the 'Aldershot' after all!!! I rather liked the shelter being that, but now we know the shelter is actually the Shelter Portable No.2. Does the Shelter Portable No.2 have a more 'familiar' 'handle'?
    Can we see the scale drawing for that 'Aldershot' too, please?
    Lizzie the overview for SP No.2 comes from a catalogue of Tents & Shelters in Service & Under Development unfortunately it is not detailed as would be in a User Handbook. There are no scale drawings, I'm not aware of any term of familiarity for it.

    I've looked in RAOS Part 8 Pam No.44 Handbook of Tentage 1946. Although it contains shelters they are only small specialist ones, the only large forms of tentage are marquees of their various kinds.

    Twenty years ago I bought direct from the MOD all user handbooks available for all tentage in service. The publications were all dated 1981, it doesn't include the Aldershot or SP No.2 but surprisingly still includes the various WW2 marquees.

    PS I forgot that I also have a separate book with the data summaries of all tentage in service in 1981 which amounted to about 50 types including SP No.2 but not the Aldershot. Although there is Shelter, Portable, Universal, Assembly 'A' it is nothing like the Aldershot. The UHBs I bought were just the ones held at the DSDC at the time, these do have line drawings but these are not included in the data book JSP 361.
    Last edited by fv1609; 17-02-2017 at 20:44. Reason: PS
    Clive Elliott

    Always wanted old British Army publications of any period (the older the better) eg AC, ACI, AEMI, AESP, AO, COSA, CP, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, ETS, JSP, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications in paper or fiche.

  10. #239
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    Here is a photo of an Aldershot shelter being used as a workshop during WW2, of interest is a Loyd Carrier, with what looks like a tank engine sitting in it, I wonder if this was trailed behind the Crusader ARV? (off subject, sorry Lizzie). Anyway point of photo is to show these structures did have roof vents.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Aldershot shelter.jpg  

    Richard Farrant

    1943 Bedford QLD - 1941 BSA WM20 - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk.2
    MVT no. 1087 - IMPS no. 57 - AMVCS hon. member and Comms. officer
    KVE President and Newsletter Editor

  11. #240
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    Default Re: Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

    It's a bit fuzzy but I am pretty sure that that is a Churchill engine sitting in the Loyd. No wonder it is sitting a bit low. Lovely photo of the Crusader ARV.

    David

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