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19 set - cosmetic restoration


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I am new to this world of military radio in general and 19 sets in particular - so please bear with my ignorance of the subject!. I'm learning.........I now know a lot more than I did two days ago.

 

I am awaiting delivery of a radio truck but in the meantime am beginning to fathom out the radio installation for the back, identifying what I have and what I need. Any installation would only be cosmetically restored. I don't have a radio amateur licence.

 

I think I now know the basic layout of what goes where. However is the set up in an MWR the same as that in a house type body.

 

The control unit that I have(a No 3B Mk 2/1) - which appears suitable for a ground station - has perished drop leads. Is it possible to source replacement leads? - or is there a way to restore these.

 

Similarly the webbing straps on the No 3 mounting board are beginning to show their age - is it possible to source replacement webbing for this. The straps are 2.5"/65mm wide. I have found a brown webbing on the internet which would appear to be satisfactory - but would prefer to keep exactly as original.

 

The clear panel in the variometer is partly missing/brokenx - probably a common occurence. I could probably smash-mould one using a wooden mould but are these available off the shelf anywhere?

 

I am also looking for the fitting that allows the variometer to be fitted to the side of the PSU - are these available at all - even a picture would help. I think it is the one which includes a mount for an aerial when used in a ground role.

 

The best set that i have was one of those modified post-war by the removal of the B set. Are the decal sets for the Mk III still available as I would like to take it back to original in due course using parts from less complete examples.

 

Finally - a question of colour - was radio equipment always painted one of the greens - KG3 or SCC15 later on - or would the equipment be painted SCC2 "service brown" matching the vehicle standards at the time.

 

Many thanks for any help or advice you can offer.

Edited by simon king
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I am new to this world of military radio in general and 19 sets in particular - so please bear with my ignorance of the subject!. I'm learning.........I now know a lot more than I did two days ago.

 

I am awaiting delivery of a radio truck but in the meantime am beginning to fathom out the radio installation for the back, identifying what I have and what I need. Any installation would only be cosmetically restored. I don't have a radio amateur licence.

 

I think I now know the basic layout of what goes where. However is the set up in an MWR the same as that in a house type body.

 

The control unit that I have(a No 3B Mk 2/1) - which appears suitable for a ground station - has perished drop leads. Is it possible to source replacement leads? - or is there a way to restore these.

 

Similarly the webbing straps on the No 3 mounting board are beginning to show their age - is it possible to source replacement webbing for this. The straps are 2.5"/65mm wide. I have found a brown webbing on the internet which would appear to be satisfactory - but would prefer to keep exactly as original.

 

The clear panel in the variometer is partly missing/brokenx - probably a common occurence. I could probably smash-mould one using a wooden mould but are these available off the shelf anywhere?

 

I am also looking for the fitting that allows the variometer to be fitted to the side of the PSU - are these available at all - even a picture would help. I think it is the one which includes a mount for an aerial when used in a ground role.

 

The best set that i have was one of those modified post-war by the removal of the B set. Are the decal sets for the Mk III still available as I would like to take it back to original in due course using parts from less complete examples.

 

Finally - a question of colour - was radio equipment always painted one of the greens - KG3 or SCC15 later on - or would the equipment be painted SCC2 "service brown" matching the vehicle standards at the time.

 

Many thanks for any help or advice you can offer.

 

Hmmm.... where to start?

 

The 3B control unit is a late tropicalised one (the /1) with rubber cabling, Earlier WW2 ones used mostly fabric covered cable.

 

The webbing for the "Straps, Clamping" existed in a wide variety of shades etc, from plain white, white with thin blue (1 or 3) stripes, thin canvas sheet folded over to thicken it, and the postwar green. How bad are your straps?

 

Variometer window is vacuum formed plastic, I think. Might be easier to swap the front assembly if you can find one the correct colour. The windows can discolour and distort with age, as well as being broken.

 

Mounting plate is occasionally seen on eBay (from Italy or NL), but some dealers have taken to stripping all the fittings off (!) and selling them separately. >:( You will also need the packing piece (wood, plastic or rubber) that goes between the plate and the variometer.

 

Decals have been reproduced recently, but I'm not sure if anyone is still doing them. If you need decals then you have a US (Mk.II) or Canadian (Mk.II or Mk.III) set. The British ones were silk screened/stencilled on the panel, I think.

 

Colour? Yes, well... panel colours varied by maker (a variety of shades of grey, plus at least a couple of blues); case colours can be black (early British production), a variety of greens (US and Canada also used wrinkle finish as well as gloss and matt), and brown. Post-WW2 sets can be refinished in gloss grey. I've also seen (British) sets with front panels in Eau de Nil - may be refurbished - for use in radio trucks.

 

Chris.

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Thanks Chris - that certainly helps

 

The best 19 set is a post war rebuild/modified Mk III with the B set parts taken out, a grommet in the place of the B set aerial and a plate over the (?) tuner wheel for the B set. I was regarding its external refurb as a longer term aim so its a case of searching and/or waiting to see if the decals are reproduced again. I see that decals for the rebuilt sets can be obtained.

 

With regard to colours it seems sensible to stick to green. I'll probably use some 298.

 

The straps seem to be the canvas type with two layers glued together - I wonder if the stiffness and cracking feeling is actually the glue between the two layers which has aged.. I'll think on that but it sounds as if the brown selfedged webbing might be an acceptable replacement.

 

The control unit is more of an issue. I'll keep looking for a non tropicalised version but the one I have will suit for the immmediiate future. I might be able to repair the perished rubber with something from Frosts. I think completing the radio fit is going to be more expensive and more of a challenge than my jeep.

 

I have a lozenge shaped spacer for the variometer - as the variometer was fitted on the top of the PSU. Was the mounting plate simple bent metal - if so are there any plans anywhere? Again I will look out for a better variometer but try reproducing the window in the meantime.

 

Thanks again for your help - I know even more than I did two days ago now.

Edited by simon king
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I think completing the radio fit is going to be more expensive and more of a challenge than my jeep.

 

I have a lozenge shaped spacer for the variometer - as the variometer was fitted on the top of the PSU. Was the mounting plate simple bent metal - if so are there any plans anywhere? Again I will look out for a better variometer but try reproducing the window in the meantime.

 

 

 

Expense & challenge: very probably.

 

OK, so you have the "Piece, Packing", you need the "Plate, Seating". :D

 

It's mostly bent tinplate, apart from the aerial socket which is more complicated. I suspect the "variometer fitted to the top of the PSU involved holes being drilled in the latter rather than the correct seating plate for that. >:(

 

I'll have a look through the scrap pile for suitable bits.

 

I can certainly find you a 'B' set aerial connector, possibly the (edgewise) tuning knob and maybe a Quench adjuster.

Another problem may be matching the actual set to the "portrayal date" of the vehicle, of course. :whistle:

 

Where are you based?

 

Chris.

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Hmmm.... where to start?

 

 

Decals have been reproduced recently, but I'm not sure if anyone is still doing them. If you need decals then you have a US (Mk.II) or Canadian (Mk.II or Mk.III) set. The British ones were silk screened/stencilled on the panel, I think.

 

 

Chris.

 

Is this the reproduction decals maker?

 

http://www.mullardmagic.co.uk/decal-ws19-19-set-za25337-tank-radio-wireless-set-no-19

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I hope you don't mind me jumping in an asking a question whilst we are on the subject. I've got and M3 Scout Car, I've mounted a WS19 but need to get hold of a PSU, connecting lead and Variometer (Aerial) ??. I would need to mount the PSU on top of the set. Does the Normal 12 pin connecting lead allow for the PSU to go on top and where is the best place to get these parts ?

 

Also new to radios so please correct anything I have got wrong above.

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I hope you don't mind me jumping in an asking a question whilst we are on the subject. I've got and M3 Scout Car, I've mounted a WS19 but need to get hold of a PSU, connecting lead and Variometer (Aerial) ??. I would need to mount the PSU on top of the set. Does the Normal 12 pin connecting lead allow for the PSU to go on top and where is the best place to get these parts ?

 

Also new to radios so please correct anything I have got wrong above.

 

The supply unit fits on top of the set (rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise) and that puts the output connector in the correct position for the standard "dogbone" to fit (though you will almost certainly have to reorient the connectors - easier with the later fabric covered cable type). It's fastened to the top of the set using two pieces of steel angle, and a slightly longer (than the normal PSU) securing strap. The steel angle pieces are fixed to the set case with 2BA screws - the 12 tapped holes (4 groups of 3) in the top of the set case, and the strap passes underneath.

 

Parts turn up on eBay, various militaria fairs, amateur radio rallies, etc. Prices vary from "ridiculously cheap", through various stages of "reasonable" and then past "outrageous" to "this has to be a joke, right?". (I have seen the WW2 British R107 receiver on sale from £25 all the way up to £250 - the £250 one was at Beltring one year and had been left face-up in the rain for some days and was probably full of water. They're a nice receiver if you don't have to move it anywhere since it weighs 99lb/40+kg, but £25 - £60 is a more sensible price.

 

Back to the WS19: you need to know fairly exactly which parts you need, especially mounting hardware (there are 9 different aerial feeder adapters for the back of the variometer, for instance), and also know what to avoid. (Any supply unit with a 12mm hole drilled in the top right of the front panel is junk, as it's been butchered postwar to make it a caravan power supply and is not easily restorable.

 

Chris.

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Thanks I did wonder about those but they appear to be for the post war rebuilt Mk III sets with the Cyrillic text decals and the B set removed.

 

More specific than that, the "NEW" label indicates it was rebuilt by the REME at Newark workshops in the late 1950s/early 1960s.:-D

 

Chris.

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  • 2 months later...
More specific than that, the "NEW" label indicates it was rebuilt by the REME at Newark workshops in the late 1950s/early 1960s.:-D

 

Chris.

The cosmetic rebuild of the chosen 19 set built by EKC is progressing well. I have stripped the set down to the state where it was possible to remove the faceplate. That has now been stripped and repainted (Ford engine grey as it happens aka RAL Mausgrau). I am now putting it all back together, using a scrap set to supply some of the common parts lost when the B set was removed during the REME rebuild in the 1950s. Work to replicate the lettering on the face is in hand.

 

I am having problems with the flick setting screws though. When I got the set, two of the setting screws in both of dials were not screwed in and I still cannot get the screws to engage. I suppose the threads could have been stripped inside but it seems odd that two diagonally opposed threads in each dial have been stripped. Is there a trick to sorting this out? It's not a big deal but I would like to have it mechanically right even if the electrics are shot.

 

thanks

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More specific than that, the "NEW" label indicates it was rebuilt by the REME at Newark workshops in the late 1950s/early 1960s.:-D

 

Chris.

The cosmetic rebuild of the chosen 19 set built by EKC is progressing well. I have stripped the set down to the state where it was possible to remove the faceplate. That has now been stripped and repainted (Ford engine grey as it happens aka RAL Mausgrau). I am now putting it all back together, using a scrap set to supply some of the common parts lost when the B set was removed during the REME rebuild in the 1950s. Work to replicate the lettering on the face is in hand.

 

I am having problems with the flick setting screws though. When I got the set, two of the setting screws in both of dials were not screwed in and I still cannot get the screws to engage. I suppose the threads could have been stripped inside but it seems odd that two diagonally opposed threads in each dial have been stripped. Is there a trick to sorting this out? It's not a big deal but I would like to have it mechanically right even if the electrics are shot.

 

thanks

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I am having problems with the flick setting screws though. When I got the set, two of the setting screws in both of dials were not screwed in and I still cannot get the screws to engage. I suppose the threads could have been stripped inside but it seems odd that two diagonally opposed threads in each dial have been stripped. Is there a trick to sorting this out? It's not a big deal but I would like to have it mechanically right even if the electrics are shot.

 

 

The Official 19 set Manual says not to remove the setting screws. The wording is "There are no Medals awarded for getting these screws back in again". Try asking on the 19 set website for help?

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The Official 19 set Manual says not to remove the setting screws. The wording is "There are no Medals awarded for getting these screws back in again". Try asking on the 19 set website for help?

 

Not guilty, m'lud

 

it was like that when I got it, mister - honestly

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Hi Simon

i have managed to refit both sets of screws to the 19 set in my MWR it is very difficult and you will need a lot of patience ,if you remove the complete slow motion drive (the adjuster under the dial )and take out the screw holding the knob in the centre of the dial you can lift off the dial and see the four holes in the two plates i dont think the threaded holes will be stripped you will just be using the wrong holes ,i found that when refitted all the screws do not sit at the same height

Nicky

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Not guilty, m'lud

 

it was like that when I got it, mister - honestly

and

 

Heh.

 

I will attempt to find my notes. It is possible to wangle the flick mechanism such that the holes line up again without stripping the thing down, but it's a bit of a fiddle.

 

Basically, there are three clamping rings and a couple of notched disks. The notch in the disk allows the flick mechanism to lower the flag into the window and indicate that you're on (or close to) the preset frequency. The front clamping disk has no threads in the four holes, the middle one has two threaded and two plain holes, and the rear one has two threaded holes only (from memory). The rear disk holes are for the 'blue' flick, and the front ones for the 'Red' flick screws. (The red screws stick out further because they are clamping the front disk using the tapped holes in the middle one. the blue screws should go through the plain holes in the middle disk and screw into the rear one.)

 

(Note: the colours are dots on the square knob on each dial.)

 

You will be unsurprised to learn that replacement tuning capacitors were supplied with the drive unit already fitted.

 

Chris.

(Busy moving house this week, updates will be delayed.)

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The cosmetic rebuild of the chosen 19 set built by EKC is progressing well. I have stripped the set down to the state where it was possible to remove the faceplate. That has now been stripped and repainted (Ford engine grey as it happens aka RAL Mausgrau). I am now putting it all back together, using a scrap set to supply some of the common parts lost when the B set was removed during the REME rebuild in the 1950s. Work to replicate the lettering on the face is in hand.

 

I am having problems with the flick setting screws though. When I got the set, two of the setting screws in both of dials were not screwed in and I still cannot get the screws to engage. I suppose the threads could have been stripped inside but it seems odd that two diagonally opposed threads in each dial have been stripped. Is there a trick to sorting this out? It's not a big deal but I would like to have it mechanically right even if the electrics are shot.

 

thanks

 

In other news I have found you a Quench coil with the adjustment knob still fitted, and the 'B' set shield that takes the tuning capacitor - this will make it much easier to fit a dummy tuning dial to the set. Haven't found the dial itself yet, though. It will probably turn up while I'm packing the junk pile for the move.

 

Chris.

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Nicky and Chris

 

Thanks for your help - getting there.

 

Looks as if I'll be twiddling some dials tomorrow.....................

 

Well that seemed too simple - sorted in 10 minutes

 

thanks again

 

Edit- it was too simple, only three of the four flags working but I still call that a result. I'll carry on to see if I can get it working without pulling things apart

 

In the meantime, just waiting for a few items and the lettering

 

IMG_2843.jpg

Edited by simon king
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  • 2 weeks later...

While the 19 set/PSU refurb is on hold, pending parts and transfers, I thought I would get on with refurbing a good variometer for the set. Two variometers came with the truck, one dark green dated 1955 and another with appeared to have been painted with a yard brush in household gloss brunswick green. Both were distinctly second-hand but I thought it might be possible to make one good one from the best bits of the two.

 

As I stripped the yardbrush green one, it became apparent that the body was copper with steel ends and had originally been painted a service grey colour. I sanded the body down carefully and eventually found the very indistict remains of a data/nomenclature block of which although well degraded enough remained to indicate it had been manufactured by Canadian Marconi in Montreal. More sanding revealed a green basecoat and a further data block - presumably a second one added following a REME rebuild in the 1950s

 

I decided that this was the one upon which to base the refurb. Why was the body copper though - was it just that sheet copper was readily available at the time.

 

The next issue is the clear window on the front face. Both were damaged/discoloured to the extent that they were unuseable. Has anybody found a way of replicating these? I have tried to heatform acetate sheet over the edge of the front face but so far this has been singularly unsuccessful - any ideas?

 

I have done the artwork for a transfer based on a picture on the internet. I will try making my own transfer eventually using decal paper, a household printer and decal varnish produced for plastic modellers - another voyage of discovery......

Edited by simon king
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Both variometers had smashed windows in the front face so something needed doing.

 

In the absence of any vaseline, i stole some vaseline lip balm from my long suffering other half and smeared it on the inside of a variometer front face. I then packed the inside with body filler, placing a craft lollipop stick (v useful around the garage for all manner of things) to act as a handle. With a bit of additional work, I had a perfectly smooth male mould. I made a female mould as well but in the event didnt use it.

 

Next thing was to make a frame from lollipop sticks. I initially used 20thou clear plasticard but the finished window was a bit flimsy so I moved up to 40thou. Clipped the plastcard to the frame, held it over the gas cooker and then pushed the mould into the softened plastic. Allowed the window to cool on the mould then extracted the mould.

 

IMG_2848.jpg

 

It is much clearer than it looks in the photo. Just now needs trimming to fit and a line painted on it.

Edited by simon king
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(Variometer)

 

I decided that this was the one upon which to base the refurb. Why was the body copper though - was it just that sheet copper was readily available at the time.

 

Try a magnet on it, I think you'll find it's heavily copper-plated steel.

 

(A lot of the US/Canadian aerial parts were copper plated to reduce the surface resistance and improve performance at radio frequencies.)

 

Be warned that if water gets under the plating it corrodes like crazy and you get a horrible bubbled finish that is difficult to do anything about.

 

Chris.

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