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Knox-Martin Tractors


QL Driver

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Hi all,

 

A friend of mine has recently acquired some substantial parts of what's believed to be a c.1915 4 wheeled Knox-Martin tractor and he would like to restore it.

 

Its history is unclear, so we're unsure of whether it saw military service, but it's of the type used for the tank transporters.

 

Information on the Knox seems to be fairly thin on the ground. Does anyone have any leads on technical information, drawings, or parts for a Knox?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

 

 

For those unfamiliar with the vehicle, this is essentially what it should look like:

Knox_tractor-trailer.jpg

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Tim - you're correct, it is the Knox part of the Knox/Maudsley yard crane from Keeley's (the idea being to split it back into its constituent vehicles).

 

There is another 3 wheeled Knox tractor at the San Jose Fire Museum - http://www.sjfiremuseum.org/portfolio/1914-knox-martin/

 

It appears those two are the only complete ones - and the one at the Smithsonian is no longer on display. Thanks for the lead on the Wheels & Tracks issue - I'll pass that on!

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Here are some photos of the Maudslay/Knox at the sale. It had been dismantled and partially restored.

The front of the chassis has been replaced with the Maudslay as you can see here. The Knox chassis is surprisingly short and narrow:

IMG_0470%20-%20Copy_zps7hou1bye.jpg

Interesting adaption to make them fit together:

IMG_0474%20-%20Copy_zpsyzsdgrpg.jpg

IMG_0472%20-%20Copy_zps0ksbhoz4.jpg

The rad, engine and gearbox were all Maudslay:

IMG_0468%20-%20Copy_zpsdnomvxk8.jpg

IMG_0471%20-%20Copy_zpsqqinmxlb.jpg

IMG_0469%20-%20Copy_zps4usrthhp.jpg

There seemed to be a big pile of bits, but were the wheels in a different lot as they did not seem to be with the lorry.

IMG_0664_zpsxz9uqsip.jpg

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Tim. Can you upload a sketch of the Knox chassis as it was? I am really struggling to rationalise the description of the chassis on p.13 of W&T #25 with the pictures you have posted. I was intrigued to see the photo of the Keely Bros Maudslay/with Knox rear end on p.15. You can clearly see the brake drum which is also clear in photo no.6 of your postings above. Cheers Robert

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Tim - thanks for that lead! I tracked down the "Motor Truck Design & Construction" book that the chassis drawing came from: https://archive.org/stream/motortruckdesign00scharich#page/217/mode/1up

 

I suspect there's useful information in there for anyone restoring American trucks of the era.

 

Based on the evidence at hand, it's quite convincingly a Model 36 rather than Model 35. The 35 was the artic tractor with the separately sprung fifth wheel and chassis, and the Model 36 was a direct haulage tractor. Fortunately the front end that's missing is identical between the two types.

 

I also found large volumes of information on Google Books. Unfortunately in the UK they aren't accessible without some tricks (http://www.strangehistory.net/2014/06/08/problems-accessing-google-books-outside-us/), but there are lots of contemporary journals that have been scanned and I found several technical descriptions of the Knox tractors.

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Hi all,

 

A friend of mine has recently acquired some substantial parts of what's believed to be a c.1915 4 wheeled Knox-Martin tractor and he would like to restore it.

 

.........

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

 

 

So Ed, has your friend yet sorted the Maudslay bits from the Knox bits? Any chance of some photos of the separate piles? The restoration looks like a real challenge to me. And I, for one, would love to watch its progress... Robert

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, per Robert's request above, here are the Knox components separated out. Unfortunately I don't have any photos showing the Maudslay side of the pile.

 

Does anyone know where the Matador in the sale went? I've been told there were some Matador parts included in this lot, and so it's suspected some Knox/Maudslay stuff may have gone the other way. The owners would like to rectify that error!

 

Back axle assembly (Large).JPG

Rear Axle and Radius Rods

Back cross member (Large).JPG

This is the original rear cross member.

The drawbar eye (Large).JPG

Drawbar eye and original rear cross member.

Chassis_gearbox (Large).JPG

The chassis and gearbox together. Not the brake drums/hubs in the background.

Gearbox internals (Large).jpg

Gearbox internals

K M Co  85 E 1169   (Large).JPG

Number stamped on the brake gear.

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That's nice to see. I didn't see the Knox box in the auction.

 

Steve and I have been looking at the W&T photo of this vehicle when it was complete and we can see that the Maudlsay radiator is not the one that was fitted at the time. Because the Knox box (in Sox - apologies to Dr Seuss) is in the chassis I presume that was the one that was used when it was last operational. If that is the case did the Maudslay engine, rad and gearbox come from another Maudslay chassis? These appear to be the same as the subsidy pattern, so if anybody has a WD Maudslay chassis they could be used for bringing that back. The truck has always been referred to as a Knox Maudslay, but is the front chassis really a 1920 overtype Maudslay bus chassis, or might it be something else? Just a thought.

 

Tim

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Tim

 

Interesting thoughts. To be honest I've got very little information on the Maudslay side of the equation, but my supposition is that as the vehicle was used as a yard crane, the idea of it being heavily geared down by running through two gearboxes (the Maudsley box followed by the prop shaft to the Knox box) wouldn't be problematic, and to get the power take off for the winch to work, the Knox box would have to still be driven.

 

Based on the cab design it bears a strong resemblance to a 1930-ish Maudslay 5 ton wagon. I found a photo of one via Google where it was fitted with pneumatics and had the cut outs in the cab floor for the wheel arches but haven't been able to find it again.

 

[edit] this isn't the picture but shows the general design: http://www.stilltimecollection.co.uk/detail/29412-tpt-transport-truck-lorry-wagon-maudslay.html

 

Ed

Edited by QL Driver
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  • 11 months later...

So, here's the state of play... A lot has been worked out, and various other components have turned up at Keeley's since the sale. It turns out that the components included in the sale appear to all be Knox (or Maudslay). There are various leads being tracked down to get things together. There's apparently a 1915-ish Knox catalogue out there that from the images available, appears it would clarify some of the details... so that's an item being looked for at the moment.

 

I hope this is of interest!

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=126394&stc=1

P4290010.jpg

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When I was discussing this yesterday with the owner, one of the remaining questions to be solved is the hydraulic pump for the rear brakes. Apparently it should have a hand lever operated pump to actuate the brakes on the rear axle.

 

As ever, any leads on Knox parts would be appreciated!

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  • 8 months later...

Hi Everyone - I thought there might be some interest in these updated photos taken this weekend. As you can see, there's a great deal of progress! I don't have any specific technical updates... but as ever, any new info, parts, drawings, photos, etc would be of interest!

knox 3.jpg

knox1.jpg

IMG_20180210_120943514.jpg

knox 5.jpg

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Steve, I don’t have the details on the engine, I’m afraid!

The radiator is indeed new.

I’ve not seen the Knox in person yet. The thing I was struck by from the photos (and by Dad’s description) is that it’s enormous. The top of the radiator is about 6’ off the ground!

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