Ferret ignition troubles

Clive,

Here's hoping you are reading this. I have just bought a Mk1 Stalwart that has sat for a great many years unused and it all feels a little like dejavu again. I have connected two batteries and turned the master on, ignition on I'm getting dash lights but no cranking on swinging the starter lever. Is there any chance you could send me the wiring diagrams for ign and starter circuit as you said before? Would be very helpful

Thanks, Lewis

Lewis will do on return, I am away at Bovington Tankfest at the moment.

Thank you very much Clive, no rush. Enjoy the show.

fv1609... Clive? ..  Hello, I am wondering, are you in Carmarthen?  I am and with a problematic Ferret I would like to chat with you.  Followed the older posts regarding ignition issues but would benefit from a personal contact. How to make contact?  phone number, email ?  I live near to Nantgaredig, just east of Carmarthen.

Hope to meet you, Roland

Hi fv1609, would you please get in touch with me as I’m having the same problem and could really do with some help . I’d appreciate it greatly . You can contact me on here or via my email frank@edencamp.co.uk

On 5/5/2016 at 11:08 AM, fv1609 said:

An earth problem on the instrument panel will have no effect on the starter as that has its own earth. The switchboard starter switch just has to supply 24+

 

As the panel lights & fuel gauge are dim or intermittent it suggests that they are not receiving 24+ which suggests to me there is a fault in the 10A circuit breaker that is in the distribution box.

 

The thing to do is measure the volts at R & verify it is 24+ then also this is the same on INS.

 

INS is what come out of the circuit breaker. It must be measured under load with the ignition & starter on. At rest there may be some voltage coming through but due to grotty or open contacts the voltage can still pass through the winding that triggers the circuit breaker. But the voltage cannot deliver much current due to the resistance & lights will be dim.

Some loose ends here.

Lewis, did I ever send you the diagrams?

Roland, you are sorted after my visit.

Frank, you can ask questions on here in public. Its better that way because so often other people have similar problems & benefit from the matters arising that in this thread has led to several resolutions for people.  Besides in the past I have found myself conducting long private conversations to several people with similar problems, that could have been shared & resolved more quickly.

1 minute ago, fv1609 said:

Some loose ends here.

Lewis, did I ever send you the diagrams?

Roland, you are sorted after my visit.

Frank, you can ask questions on here in public. Its better that way because so often other people have similar problems & benefit from the matters arising that in this thread has led to several resolutions for people.  Besides in the past I have found myself conducting long private conversations to several people with similar problems, that could have been shared & resolved more quickly.

Yes no problem. , so I have exactly the same problem as the original post . Flickering lights at the switch board . Sometimes the starter doesn’t engage and it stops when running ( although this could also be a fuel problem) I was wondering how to test the 10a breaker in The distribution box , and what to do if I find it 

•fine and providing 24v 

•bad and not 24v 

i know both batteries are charged and ok, Iv tried using the inter-vehicle starting plug using another vehicle and nothing changes .,

- would my next step be the doughnut under the switchboard ? 

Thanks 

Frank there are three key places to look for a consistent 24v supply in the ignition circuit.

IGN+ (supply to ignition switch)

R (with ignition on that feeds into 10A circuit breaker)

INS (with ignition on that is the supply from the 10A circuit breaker to the instrument panel)

A lot can be gauged with a bulb test prod fitted with a 24v bulb. It easier to operate than if you try to use a meter because if you are holding the test prods, you need to balance the meter somewhere or try to hold it as well. I try to avoid digital meters as even expensive ones can give fluctuating readings even when there is no voltage. Anyway knowing the exact voltage to 3 decimal places is of no value & besides struggling trying to hold test prods & a meter means it is often not easy to read. A bulb illuminating is easy to see from all directions.

Mentally calibrate the brightness of the bulb by connecting it directly across the batteries, then prod the 3 points above in turn.

If INS gives a very dim light the contacts on the 10A circuit breaker are probably corroded & the voltage is arriving via the winding of the circuit breaker & that is in effect putting 165-191 ohms in series with the output voltage, so the more current you draw the greater will be the voltage drop.

If the bulb is bright in all three places hold it on INS & jiggle wires & connectors around to see if that triggers intermittency. Hopefully that will reveal a culprit.

A thing to watch with these bullet like plugs they can be held firmly in place by the rubber rim of the joiner, it doesn't always mean there is a tight or reliable electrical contact inside.

It would be good housekeeping to one at a time remove remove one connector inspect it & plug it in again. A corroded or severely tarnished one needs cleaning up, but the act of separating them after decades of dormancy is worthwhile.

Then when this is sorted start worrying whether there is something else in the ignition circuit.

If all else fails I will be at WTITV & will have a range of test gear to test the performance of the electrical side of things. If it does prove to be the circuit breaker & it doesn't respond to repair or severely corroded inside I have a like new Box, Distribution, No. 1 Mk 1.

On 4/26/2019 at 8:08 PM, fv1609 said:

Frank there are three key places to look for a consistent 24v supply in the ignition circuit.

IGN+ (supply to ignition switch)

R (with ignition on that feeds into 10A circuit breaker)

INS (with ignition on that is the supply from the 10A circuit breaker to the instrument panel)

A lot can be gauged with a bulb test prod fitted with a 24v bulb. It easier to operate than if you try to use a meter because if you are holding the test prods, you need to balance the meter somewhere or try to hold it as well. I try to avoid digital meters as even expensive ones can give fluctuating readings even when there is no voltage. Anyway knowing the exact voltage to 3 decimal places is of no value & besides struggling trying to hold test prods & a meter means it is often not easy to read. A bulb illuminating is easy to see from all directions.

Mentally calibrate the brightness of the bulb by connecting it directly across the batteries, then prod the 3 points above in turn.

If INS gives a very dim light the contacts on the 10A circuit breaker are probably corroded & the voltage is arriving via the winding of the circuit breaker & that is in effect putting 165-191 ohms in series with the output voltage, so the more current you draw the greater will be the voltage drop.

If the bulb is bright in all three places hold it on INS & jiggle wires & connectors around to see if that triggers intermittency. Hopefully that will reveal a culprit.

A thing to watch with these bullet like plugs they can be held firmly in place by the rubber rim of the joiner, it doesn't always mean there is a tight or reliable electrical contact inside.

It would be good housekeeping to one at a time remove remove one connector inspect it & plug it in again. A corroded or severely tarnished one needs cleaning up, but the act of separating them after decades of dormancy is worthwhile.

Then when this is sorted start worrying whether there is something else in the ignition circuit.

If all else fails I will be at WTITV & will have a range of test gear to test the performance of the electrical side of things. If it does prove to be the circuit breaker & it doesn't respond to repair or severely corroded inside I have a like new Box, Distribution, No. 1 Mk 1.

Hi , Iv traced the issue back to the main ignition switch . Cleaned the bullets as I went . Got it started . Then lightly tapped the ignition switch which stopped the engine . 

Can they be rebuilt /serviced or is a new panel required ? 

Thanks 

That's good you have pinned it down & by servicing the other connectors you may have averted some problem in the future. The videos won't play for me. I assume you have Switchboard No.1 Mk 6, it was much more reliable than the Mk 1. But neither had interchangeable bits despite an external vague similarity. Taking it apart is fairly easy, but putting it back together is more challenging.

You may find that the arcing on the switch contacts has eroded them badly or you may be lucky & find a loose termination on the fly leads inside. NOS are available from:

https://marcusglenn.com/parts/daimler-ferret-fv-700-series/ignition-panel-no1-mk6

Not cheap but a small price for reliability when you consider the damn nuisance or even serious danger resulting from a sudden loss of ignition in a traffic situation.

Thank you for all your help . I have a vehicle electrician attending in Tuesday who will inspect for me . I’ll keep you updated .