seeking taillight

Point is, its worth knowing that you ARE breaking the rules and on that basis can decide yourself what you are prepared to risk. Especially re invalidating insurance claims..........eg if (gawd forbid) you get rear ended by someone on their mobile. I am not sure my Matchless is road legal, as it has a blackout fitted on the headlamp, but then I do not ride it at night and I do have a decent tail light that at least indicates when 1.5 inches of drum brake are being applied via the might and power of a length of stretchy wire! Some would say that the brake light is the only indication that a WD Matchless has its brakes on!

Point is, its worth knowing that you ARE breaking the rules and on that basis can decide yourself what you are prepared to risk. Especially re invalidating insurance claims..........eg if (gawd forbid) you get rear ended by someone on their mobile. I am not sure my Matchless is road legal, as it has a blackout fitted on the headlamp, but then I do not ride it at night and I do have a decent tail light that at least indicates when 1.5 inches of drum brake are being applied via the might and power of a length of stretchy wire! Some would say that the brake light is the only indication that a WD Matchless has its brakes on!

Good points Ferg, and regarding the blackout headlight, don't forget that it is now a requirement to use headlight in rain and bad visibility, this could happen whilst out on a journey. I used to use my headlight on WM20 when going along narrow lanes in order to be spotted quickly by oncoming vehicles. Also had a quick detachable board for reflective number plate and 1950's Lucas stop/tail lamp, which could be removed to reveal original tail lamp when on display.

regards, Richard

OK I see. The 211 is certainly slimmer than a 110. But why not simply buy a repro fag end as well.

I thought that's what I was buying Ron, I was comparing it to a few pics I took of a matchless (and others) at the W&P,

Everything I seem to source for my WDG3L seems to be wrong at present, even the paint I got mixed looked good and did a test piece all OK nice matt finish, until I sprayed the tank and now have a Satin finish service brown tank.... probably two many coats or not enough thinners on first application.

Everything I seem to source for my WDG3L seems to be wrong at present, even the paint I got mixed looked good and did a test piece all OK nice matt finish, until I sprayed the tank and now have a Satin finish service brown tank.... probably two many coats or not enough thinners on first application.

You may well find that the finish will dull down to a matt finish as it takes sometime for synthetic paint to fully cure. Also a true matt paint will quickly mar with finger prints, rubbing, and oil or grease, so a slightly satin is more durable.

Yes, agree with Richard on the paint. Truly matt paint is not weatherproof and the shine on the eggshell finish you have now will dull down over months and with use. Also, BigDuke, buying lots of bits that are wrong is what you have to do! How do you think we all amass our stock of "spares"! Another point that has caught me out more than once is that for the WD Matchless, there were many small changes made to the parts and ancilaries fitted, so comparing your bike with another pukka WD bike can be misleading......both bikes may be correct for the period assembled (or wartime repaired, for that matter).

Thanks Ferg & Richard regarding paint, some other bits I bought I have returned for a full refund and got a partial refund on a carb I bought which was very generous from the seller, managed to make one good one and saved a lot of cash so maybe things are on the up....

Hope to have the engine and gearbox on the bench and the rest of the bike striped in next few weeks so guess that's when the fun will start....

Up until we didn't need an MOT, you could still get a 'daylight only' MOT for a bike with no lights. I guess if you were riding it when it got gloomy, the responsibility would be on you to dismount and wait for the sun to come out again??

The original Fag end lights from the immediate post war period did have a number plate window and so do some of the repros I've seen.

There are also Grandfather rites in place that allow original equipment that doesn't meet modern standards to still be used. You wouldn't want EU regulation lamps on your Model T Ford.

However I agree that it's sensible to have a reasonable tail lamp and a brake lamp. Hence my suggestion of a period lamp with a semi hidden back up lamp.

I always carry one of those clip on flashing LED rear cycle lamps in case I want extra protection or to cover a blown bulb.

Regards Ron...Who will still wear a DR's tin helmet when the need arises, despite what others make of the regulations.

Up until we didn't need an MOT, you could still get a 'daylight only' MOT for a bike with no lights. I guess if you were riding it when it got gloomy, the responsibility would be on you to dismount and wait for the sun to come out again??

 

 

However I agree that it's sensible to have a reasonable tail lamp and a brake lamp. Hence my suggestion of a period lamp with a semi hidden back up lamp.

 

 

Regards Ron...Who will still wear a DR's tin helmet when the need arises, despite what others make of the regulations.

Hi Ron,

Many years ago in my youth I did a bit of motorcycle trials riding and with no lights you had to get home before dusk, luckily I never got in that situation.

Regarding brake lights, all WW2 era motorcycles should have them fitted even though the military did not have them in wartime. The law states they are fitted from a date in 1930's, think it could be 1936. The late Chris Davies of MVT, fellow WM20 rider and ex-Hampshire police officer gave me this advice on my first meeting him at the 1984 Southsea D-Day show. After all it is for our safety. This is why I put a QD number plate board on my bike with modern stop tail lamp which incorporates a red reflector, another requirement.

Regarding helmets, I used an Everoak TT helmet suitable painted olive drab, known as the 'pudding basin' as it was BS rated and legal and probably offered a little more protection than a steel DR helmet as it fitted better.

Mind you I was clocking up large mileages on the M20, as I rode it long distances to events, sometimes in the saddle for 5-6 hours.

regards, Richard

I shared a few whiskeys with Chris and Lou Lou in their camper over the final years of his life. Ron

I shared a few whiskeys with Chris and Lou Lou in their camper over the final years of his life. Ron

Chris was a great guy, gone too soon.

I still have a bunch of original Lucas taillamps, guess I should have stored them inside!!

 

 

Anyway, I sold one recently, and the guy made something nice of it, see here:

 

 

 

Price is 30 euro's, + postage at cost.

 

PM, or email me.

 

Alex

Alex, Have sent a PM and emails (not sure if the PM's are getting through?), regarding one of your lights, will take one but need payment details etc.

Lex has gone AWOL! He's not answering my emails either. I gather there's a lady-friend in the pipeline. Ron

Lex has gone AWOL! He's not answering my emails either. I gather there's a lady-friend in the pipeline. Ron

Thanks Ron, thought it was just me.... started a thread in the Legislation, Licenses & Registration section, regarding an SGS examination, DVLA wants me to contact them so I can get a V5 and Reg no etc.

Lex has gone AWOL! He's not answering my emails either. I gather there's a lady-friend in the pipeline. Ron

Another good man down ! High-maintenance lady friends are much more trouble than understanding long-suffering wives !

Well someone will have to lever him from her arms. I've got about a 'Grands' worth of freshly made Big 4 parts for him and Michel Clements. Ha Ha! Ron

I read that these MCT1 lights are not road legal in the UK.

Any idea why?

Chris Davies referred to earlier wrote a series of articles in Windscreen many years ago on the law governing military vehicles including lighting.

Basically Construction and Use Regulations cannot be retrospectively applied so the lighting regulations at the time of the manufacture of your vehicle are those that apply now. Having said this if they are not adequate after the dark or indeed in heavy traffic if hand signals are not sufficent, they can obviously hit you with lots of offences if you are deemed to be driving dangerously and or cause an accident. Also as previously mention the WD often ignored the regulations of the day on military vehicles.

If they are not legal I would assume it is because of the area / size of the lenses is not large enough. You will need to check what was regulation at the time of construction.

I believe that the 1953 ROAD TRANSPORT LIGHTING (REAR LIGHTS) BILL (which was, unusually for the UK, retrospective) introduced a minimum size for rear lights, compulsory number plate illumination a reflector requirement and a compulsory stop lamp.

A separate rear reflector can deal with the first aspect but slightly negates the desired military rear end look (as does the number plate, of course) and with a bit of ingenuity, a stop function can be included, perhaps with a resistor and an LED lamp but the illuminated surface area and number plate lamp will remain a problem unless you fit an extra lamp as well.

The chances of being picked up on this are much less than they were thirty or forty years ago (at which time most policemen had done military service and knew exactly what was what). Even lighting that conforms will seem quaint to modern policemen.

I spoke to Lex yesterday and it turns out his laptop is buggered and should be fixed next week. He's in Germany at a big jumble right now. Ron

Having found Chris's article he states rear lights must have an illuminated circular area of no more than 2" or if not circular big enough to contain a circle of 1" diameter.

There was a lot of discussion at the time if standard WW2 American light clusters are actually legal.

Any vehicle manufactured after 1936 and pre 1971 needs a minimum of one stop light.

As mentioned before, you can ignore all UK lighting requirements and laws if you use your bike during daylight hours only...............

All of mine are wired exactly to wartime military specifications and wear blackout masks............but then again, I never ride at night or during darkness................

When MoT's were required for "historic vehicles" in the UK, the lighting arrangements on my bikes were excluded from the test because I informed the tester that the vehicle (bike) was only used during daylight hours......and to comply with the law those lights fitted need to be "masked over" (eg - a blackout mask) and cannot readily "Be put to use" (meaning that you can't simply operate a switch to put the lighting to use, needing to physically remove the masking, etc).........just for good measure I used to put a piece of duck-tape over the MCT1 rear light lense for the test...........

Now MoT's are no longer necessary in the UK, it very much relies on the rider to comply with the current legal requirements............For example, you can legally drive a modern car on UK roads with non-functioning lights providing it is during daylight hours and/or if said lights are defective but in-between/en-route to repair workshops, etc..........same with a modern trials bike or scrambler...........if not fitted with lighting, and/or even if lighting is fitted, but "masked over" or "cannot be put to immediate use" then lighting, even if fitted, is considered non-functional and therefore excluded from any (MoT) test or any "stop-check" on the road by the authorities providing if used during daylight hours..........

It obviously means that if you follow the above, you do not need a stop (brake)-light or a rear reflector, speedo light, etc...........if your bike is considered to not be fitted with lighting and used during daylight hours only then these requirements are also null and void..............

My James ML and WD/RE lightweights are not even fitted with speedo's ! But, if necessary, you can always clip-on a modern digital bicycle speedometer out of interest..............

The onus will always be on the rider to prove, the police to question, and if it ever gets that far a Court to decide..............but as a long-serving retired UK cop I think, personally, that there will always be far more important issues to concentrate on..................

But bear in mind that if someone shunts you up the rear at say a road junction or roundabout when you are stopping or slowing, you are at risk of insurance hassles..........if you survive the encounter, of course! Decent lighting for riding on public roads needs consideration.....daytime or nighttime.

But bear in mind that if someone shunts you up the rear at say a road junction or roundabout when you are stopping or slowing, you are at risk of insurance hassles..........if you survive the encounter, of course! Decent lighting for riding on public roads needs consideration.....daytime or nighttime.

Absolutely. I have a Lucas 529 replacing the tiny Lucas 480 on my Square Four; the W/NG came from Italy with an aftermarket Italianesque light which will house an LED lightboard - much larger than the original.