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IMPS Agreement for entry to War and Peace.


Markheliops

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Surely if 80% of IMPS and MVT members are taking advantage of the organisers by staying for ten days then there can be no reason to have a lock down!

 

The idea of being able to relax and spend 10 days at the showground is great, but like many (I would suspect the large majority) others I struggle to get the time to do the 5 days of the Show.

 

I take 3 large trucks and a Landrover to the show, and get my mates to help with getting them ready, take them to the show, put up the tents, cam etc. We try to attend and take part in as many of the arena events as possible to allow all and sundry to see the vehicles in action.

 

My family, and some of my friends families come to share the experience. It happens to be the fact that they're all IMPS members, but if they weren't so what! A vehicle entry allowed 2 adults and 2 children entry to the show. Is it a chicken and egg scenario? No people, no vehicles.

 

Do I object to paying £10 towards toilets and showers for my entry? No, as it's a drop in the ocean compared to all the other costs involved. However I do object to being described as a scammer etc.

 

Jules

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Um what can I say scamers, just meeting mates ect in the new owners views. I attend as a member of the friends of the tank museum were we have good selection of amour for the public to see all owened by members, we show in the arena when ever possible so the public can see moving armor we all ways man the stand and answer any questions the public and others ask. We all have are own jobs and take annual leave to attend war and peace to help make it the show its become like everyone else who attends. Last year we went in the arena at least 3 or 4 times a day and even arrange for the army to crew ricks Cromwell which was a site ! All this is we do but with the current views of the new owners say different I will be going this year to see if what happens. Oh by the way we also cover the cost of fuel ect by ourselves.

Edited by Big Al
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No, because you agree to it by signing the T&C when you enter the show ground :undecided:

 

You would be entering into a contract and not to comply would usually means financial penalty, as you would be paying to enter how could a penalty be imposed?

To lock you in would surely be illegal, as soon as you ask to leave they would have to let you!

(I would like to see the barrier that will keep this lot in against their will!).

 

In the end if arguments entail about leaving or whatever, the working relationship is over and it makes no sense to keep an unhappy camper in the public eye.

It makes no bussines sense to alienate your main assets.....

All very strange.......:undecided:

Edited by Mk3iain
a bit more..
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To be honest I don't believe the lock down is meant too literally.

Lock down sounds official but is probably meant to sound serious to at least pusuade attendees to not leave early.

 

However, It would be wise for Mr. Allison to register on this forum and explain things.

He may have said some things he didn't really mean or think through as happens to a lot of us.

 

So, ... paging Mr Allison. :cellphone:

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To be honest I don't believe the lock down is meant too literally.

Lock down sounds official but is probably meant to sound serious to at least pusuade attendees to not leave early.

 

However, It would be wise for Mr. Allison to register on this forum and explain things.

He may have said some things he didn't really mean or think through as happens to a lot of us.

 

So, ... paging Mr Allison. :cellphone:

 

Yes would be good move

 

Al

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Colin (on here somewhere) and myself run the local village day and it's a small show in comparison 150 stalls, Fun fair, arena, attractions bla bla bla and we get about 6000 through the gate on the day (free entry). What we do appreciate which seems to have been lost here and which we always try to remember is the attractions and exhibits are the show! We supply a field, water, loos and a bit of tiger tape but without the attractions and the generosity of the owners taking the time and absorbing the cost to bring it and show it off (hopefully they enjoy the day as well) we would end up with an empty field and no attractions and that's not going to entice the punters in. Not enough punters and the stalls stop coming. No stalls = no income for the insurance etc = no show and we get a free weekend Colin, happy days !!!

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No Arjan. Found him, he is argentc on here. The village day is in Codicote near Stevenage in Hertfordshire. Thinking about it we really should start a military area. Will post a new thread tomorrow with all the details and see if anyone is interested in coming along for a camp, a beer & a play :-)

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For me it is about 3,5 hours drive, perfectly fine for a weekend away. We have a few landies and a sankey trailer.

We can combine it with friends visiting and some Dutch food can be made and shared (like my dad did and does on many shows) and I can do with new friends and broaden my horizon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I thought I'd have a look and see what John Allison had said in CMV so I got myself a copy. I was a little surprised at his candid responses, in particular;

 

  • "The key element is the entertainment and education of the public and schools. It's a massive event run by enthusiasts that just meet up once a year but you cannot run an event this size on that ethos, it's an entertainment and that entertainment is for the visiting public not for the likes of me and you who are there to enjoy it."

 

I agree that it is a show put on for the public, but in this instance it is most definitely in equal measures for the benefit of the public AND the exhibitors who are not there for any money making reasons and as such have equal reason to expect it is as much their show as for the public... lets face it they're all paying to go in one way or another

 

 

 

  • "I don't want people wandering round in hi-viz, If you're driving a tank the responsibility is on you to make sure you don't run anyone over"

 

Only up to the point when someone does get injured and HSE pop along and ask what safety measures were in place and would wonder in no uncertain terms if hi-viz jackets for vehicle marshals were available then why weren't they worn... it's not ideal but I'd put any amount of money on that being the outcome.

 

 

 

  • "If you don't get the general public in you haven't got a show. Why should they come and be treated as second class citizens?

 

I don't believe they should...but in this case with the sheer number of exhibitors especially those who bring several pieces of kit who come to set up camp and make an effort to meet up once a year, you would have a show without the public, agreed, not a very profitable one, but more of a show than if the exhibitors were to go elsewhere.

 

 

 

  • At the British Shooting Show we have the crème of the industry and the reason they want to be there is because they know we work our backsides off to get the general public in We make our money from the public and they spend their money with the trade

 

This is the really surprising response, and in making it, it strikes me he really hasn't done much research into the mechanics of the show. I imagine the British shooting Show is predominantly full of trade stalls aiming to sell their wares to the paying public who in turn have gone to buy something... and in that instance John's analogy works, however 99% of the exhibitors will go to WPR to display their vehicles or living history without looking to make money. The trade stalls will hope to make most of their money from the exhibitors rather than the paying public such is the nature of most of the trade stalls. And the paying public will go to look and watch and be, as he says earlier 'entertained'. they may buy some trinkets from the stalls and a burger here and there but not replacement GMC engines or Jeep body shells or other such specialised large purchases the trade sellers will hope for. I cant imagine there will be one exhibitor who goes solely because the public will be in attendance.

 

It's a monumental shame because to attract such big pieces of kit the show needs to be a week long to make the travel worthwhile and I don't think smaller shows will get the same attendance, this would be a shame for not only us the enthusiasts but also the public who wont get to see the massive variety of military machines and reenactors.

 

I have doubt's over my attendance this year, not because of cost, but because I go to catch up with friends and simply if they're not there there's no point in my going. I've thoroughly enjoyed previous shows however I am actively hunting out smaller more local shows.

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He seems to mistake MV enthusiasts for commercial parties. I agree with the above analysis of the stalls but it seems that's not how the organizer sees it. I am by no means a W&P veteran like some are here, but I did attend 7 or 8 times so I understand the MV point of view quite well.

 

If I have the opportunity to go I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and attend this year again. Communication obviously isn't their stongest point so it might be not that bad at all. I guess I'll just have to see what happens.

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As someone points out in the parallel War and Peace thread on this Forum, there are some significant changes to the layout for 2016. It looks like they are aiming to have all/more public car parking within the site boundary which means that the area to the south of the perimeter track all along the souther boundary is for car parking (see layout plan on the W&P website). So this cuts down a lot on the area left for MVs and MV support vehicles. Also on the parallel thread to thus is some organiser feedback from Stoneleigh. Will be interesting to see how this all pans out, especially the edict on the Saturday lockdown, which includes, they say, a check round the campsites to see everyone is being good!

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A bit delayed in replying to this - somehow I locked my self out of the forum and Joris has just managed to get me sorted and back in - big thanks to him for that! :D

 

On topic though - I too was dismayed at a lot of what has been aid about the show this year. Yes, as regards the "lock-down" the new guy has a point. Last year the amount of empty plots on the Sunday - which is a public pay to get in day - were beyond belief. Working on the basis of it being a "for the public event" it makes sense to enforce a no leave policy to the end of the public attendance. To off-set this the timing has been moved to a Tues to Sat, rather than Weds to Sun. So the no leave policy terminate at close of business on the Saturday. This I can accept.

 

For me - W&P is the only show I get to take the OT to as Rex used to pay half the haulage cost - given that was over £1,000 for the return trip, for someone out of work its a big hit. I still do not know if they will be honouring that arrangement for the future shows. So I am kind of tied to attending there. Would love to be able to attend other shows but the need enforced by VOSA for a low-loader kills it.

 

Living history is up for a revamp this year to make the time flow more continuous rather than hodge podge - apparently the new guy didn't like WW2 Germans next to 1980's American next to 1960's Cold War Russians followed then by WW2 Americans and so on.......

 

Entry - I had family membership of IMPS for some reason so two vehicles of the three I take was OK. My daughter and her boyfriend crewed the third one and it looks like I will have to pay for them this year or get them added to the Living History ticket as we will be based there in tents this year, the group I usually attend with having stated whey are giving it a miss. Somewhat less than happy about this change. Looks like Kitcheners Field is going to be VERY empty this year.

 

Costs - OK - the £10 surcharge for the loos and showers is acceptable - just. After all - we have moaned about them for years so if that gets us decent loos and showers open 24x7 with hot water on demand it seems fair enough.

Support car park charge - this I take exception too - we have already paid the bill to get the vehicle there - contrary to popular opinion MV's generally are not fuel efficient and the bigger and heavier they are the worse that gets. OK - if you take just one vehicle then all the kit can possibly go in that (unless its a bike!) but for more than one vehicle a support vehicle is usually essential. For Living History support vehicles are essential to carry the props used to make the areas entertaining for the public.

The vehicles themselves - yes, you have a show if they just park up in their assigned places, But if you want the arena runs as in previous years and the set piece battles then that costs - a lot. Mine is reasonably good on the fuel but even so I get through over £250 worth. I shudder to think what the likes of the Centurion, Cheiftain's, T34's etc burn. What would happen if once the vehicles got there the owners said - that's it - we're here and not moving till Sunday??'

 

Vehicle movement - this, I will be honest, worries me. Invariably at least once a week the guy(s) walking with the OT need to hook someone away from the side of the vehicle going to and from the arena, what the insatiable urge to try and touch tracks moving at up to 10mph on the return run is I do not know, especially as they are under skirts at that point. Vision from an armoured vehicle is limited to put it mildly so I think we will still have walkers albeit not in hi-viz.

 

The "extras" mentioned - in the CMV article he refers to reinstating the safari bus service to get around the site, a fireworks display for the attendees on Saturday night and for the public and a phone app to take them around the show to tell them what they are looking at. And improving the view of the arena for the public - I take this as meaning perhaps mobile seating units.

 

I guess this year it will be a case of suck it and see. To compound the issue I believe this year is the last one at Folkestone before it becomes a housing estate and in the CMV article he says county borders will not be an issue in finding a new home for the show, nor will it ever return to the Hop Farm. If it goes North or West then those attending from Europe are going to be screwed.

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