important European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

To date I have been unable to get any reaction at all from the Home Office or their Ministers. My MP wrote to the Minister for Policing and got a non-reply straight out of Yes Minister. The Head of Firearms at the Home Office has yet to reply to the letter that I sent before Christmas.

I see that there's an updated version of the document ST 5432 2016 REV 1 "Compilation of Member States comments on the Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons" but for some reason it isn't available for download, you have to request a copy. I'm very interested to see what comment, if any, the UK has made on the proposal.

Andy

I have received two letters in reply from the house of commons regarding this issue, the first letter was a load of tosh so I asked them again and to be more specific and received a second letter yesterday.

Neil is quite correct in his statement above, a good friend of mine is on the committee representing the film and television industry as well as the collector. He has emphasised that the film and collectors industry work hand in hand and the fact that both industries have taken more potentially lethal weapons out of circulation than any other method.

There are other aspects to this though ,weapons capable of firing High explosive ammunition are also being scrutinised even though the ammunition is banned, this covers everything back down to the 13 and 18 pdr's of WWI vintage .

Come on ,be honest what threat can they be !

Rob.....................rnixartillery.

Rob makes a very important point here. If this is about taking dangerous firearms off of the street, making live weapons into De-Ac's is by far the most effective way of doing that. Those in this hobby who buy these De-Ac's are generating the removal of many thousands of weapons which are already out there and turning them into a harmless part of history (harmless unless of course you drop one on your foot !).

Perhaps its a point which along with all of the other good points being made needs pushing home and perhaps the powers that be should be encouraging it not trying to stop it.

Rob makes a very important point here. If this is about taking dangerous firearms off of the street, making live weapons into De-Ac's is by far the most effective way of doing that. Those in this hobby who buy these De-Ac's are generating the removal of many thousands of weapons which are already out there and turning them into a harmless part of history (harmless unless of course you drop one on your foot !).

 

Perhaps its a point which along with all of the other good points being made needs pushing home and perhaps the powers that be should be encouraging it not trying to stop it.

It's a good point,but the reason there is so much agro is that most of the euro don't have our high standardstandards. Our deacs are butchered to death, but others seem reluctant to follow us. There was an opportunity in 2007 for them to do it, but no! Now we have the risk of losing our hobby.

Thank you that was a very sensible interview.

A couple of phrases I noticed "very poorly drafted and unclear" and draft "is not necessarily going to happen".

One thing these proposals fail to address - but which may have a significant effect in time to come - is the topic of 3D printed guns. Not so long ago the concept would have got you laughed out of the room as the technology to produce a 3D part filled a room equivalent in size to the average house. These days, though, a 3D printer is available to buy for less than £10,000 and can produce a functioning firearm in about 14 hours at a cost of about £60 for the raw materials. There is a firm in the USA who list the templates required by such a printer for download - no security checks at anything. The templates range in scale from a small pistol up to something akin to an AR-15. Such a weapon would be cheaper to produce than trying to reactivate any form of deac, removes any risk of being caught smuggling across the Schengen area borders AND is more or less undetectable except by advanced scanners. I have pointed this out to the committee reviewing the EU proposals as this is surely a greater threat than deactivated machine guns

I think there's some confusion between the new deactivation standards and the proposed amendments to the EU firearms directive:

The new deactivation standards (Regulation 2015/2403) have already been agreed and will apply from 8 April 2016.

The changes to the EU firearms directive (91/477/EEC) are only proposals at this stage and open to discussion and amendment by the EU member states. Vicky Ford suggests that discussion of amendments will take place in March with a final decision by early Summer.

Andy

I had a very helpful surgery session with my MP, Penny Mordaunt, this afternoon. She now understands my concerns and will refer the EU proposal to Bill Cash who heads up the parliamentary European Scrutiny committee, one of the few select committees that actually has teeth.

Andy

I had a very helpful surgery session with my MP, Penny Mordaunt, this afternoon. She now understands my concerns and will refer the EU proposal to Bill Cash who heads up the parliamentary European Scrutiny committee, one of the few select committees that actually has teeth.

 

Andy

I had a very supportive letter back from our mp Maggie throup stating that the control of deac weapons was down to individual member states and Britain had no proposed changes at present.

justin

I agree with the out, sanity in politics? You've got high hopes mate! :wow:

One of the best sources for up to date information on this is the UK Deactivated Firearms Face Book Page, but basically the EU Committee Meetings on these proposals have now been held with various parties/organisations allowed to submit their views.

We await there conclusion on the various submissions.

Anyone who thinks the UK will chose not to comply with any EU Law has got there heads in the clouds as we are probably one of the most compliant members.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1599781843592857/?fref=nf

For info, this is Vicky Ford's standard reply to queries:

"Thank you for writing to me about the proposal to amend the EU legislation on the control and possession of weapons (The "Firearms" directive).

As you are aware on 18th November 2015, the European Commission proposed amendments to the current EU Directive which has been in place since 1991 and which was last reviewed in 2008. This new proposal includes elements that will improve the sharing of registers across borders between Member States and enhance the marking and tracking of weapons, particularly prohibited weapons.

I requested that the Commission officials came to the Internal Market Committee at the earliest possible opportunity to present their proposal to change the existing Firearms directive and to hear the initial views of MEPs. This meeting happened on 7thDecember 2015 and the recording is available here and the debate starts at about 1.22. In the aftermath of the tragic terrorist attacks last year, it is right that we look at what more can be done on a practical basis to tackle terrorism and criminal activities. Effective gun controls are part of this, especially given that some firearms used in the Charlie Hebdo attacks had been reconverted from "blank-firing" acoustic firearms into live firearms in Slovakia. UK deactivation standards would not have let this be possible.However, there was much discussion about the need to ensure the rules are proportionate and that they tackle real problems supported by real figures. A number of concerns have been raised about the new proposals as currently drafted, not least the absence of an impact assessment and the lack of clarity of some of the language. These concerns have come from museums, collectors, re-enactors, those involved in the film industry, "airsoft", sports shooters and those using firearms for pest control as well as military reservists in some countries.Given this, I volunteered to lead the European Parliament's work on this file, which involves scrutinising the Commission's proposal and proposing amendments where necessary. It is completely normal for MEPs to propose amendments to any proposal from the Commission and it is likely to take many months before there is a vote on both the proposal and any amendments.I have already met with FACE and the issues they address have all been identified as areas where MEPs would like to see amendments to the current text.Regarding deactivated weapons, many MEPs have expressed concerns about this. I am concerned that the Commission and Member States took 7 years to put in place rules to ensure such firearms are properly rendered inoperable. We need to ensure that these new rules are effective and they clearly need to be taken into consideration during the scrutiny process. MEPs will also want to clarify what is meant by the need for a medical test to be carried out before a license is granted and the distance selling requirements.I will be working closely with colleagues in the coming months to make sure we get the legislation right. I also believe it will be important to work closely with experts especially those representing stakeholders.Whilst it is right that at this time we check for any loopholes in the law and improve communication, any new legislation must be coupled with much greater enforcement against illegal arms, crime and terrorism.I will endeavour to keep members of the public updated as this legislation progresses through regular press releases. Please do check my website.I put a short video of this on my Facebook site recently and you may wish to watch this: https://www.facebook.com/vickyfordmep/videos/vb.152384924850614/978089762280122/?type=2&theaterYours sincerely,Vicky FordMEP"

Andy

The BASC now have a terrific link to an auto generating email to all your local MPs regarding the proposed EU Firearms Directive change fiasco.

The body text of the email is very shooter/hunter biased but you can make as many changes as you want (to include deactivated firearms, re-enacting and airsoft hobbies for example) but if you don't want to make changes that is okay too.

Main thing is that as many emails get sent to these MPs as possible

http://e-activist.com/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1979&ea.campaign.id=47315

Responce from Catherine Bearder MEP................

Dear Constituent,

Thank you for your email about possible changes to firearms regulation in the European Union (EU).

The European Commission has recently announced two sets of proposals about firearms. Firstly, on 2nd December the Commission adopted a package of measures to step up the fight against terrorism and the illegal trafficking of firearms and explosives. Although I would welcome more details on the plans, I am minded to support these proposals.

However, there are also plans announced in November that are more wide ranging and, judging by the amount of correspondence I have received since, not supported by many people. The Commission has tabled proposals to amend the Firearms Directive to make it more difficult to acquire firearms, including deactivated firearms by:

- Stricter conditions for the online acquisition of firearms, to avoid the acquisition of firearms, pieces thereof or munition through the Internet;

- Stricter rules to ban certain semi-automatic firearms, which move from Category B to Category A and will not, under any circumstances, be allowed to be held by private persons, even if they have been permanently deactivated;

- The inclusion of blank-firing weapons (e.g. alarm, signaling, life-saving weapons) in the scope of the Directive, because of their potential to be transformed into firearms.

- Further restrictions to the use and circulation of deactivated firearms. National registries should keep records of deactivated firearms and their owners. Under no circumstances will civilians be authorised to own any of the most dangerous firearms falling under Category A (e.g. a Kalashnikov), which is currently possible if they have been deactivated. The enforcement of the ban is a national responsibility, and Member States have all necessary tools at their disposal including the destruction of illegally held deactivated arms;

- Collectors, as defined by national law, are currently excluded from the scope of the Directive. The Commission is proposing today to change this, since collectors have been identified as a possible source of traffic of firearms. In the future, collectors will have the possibility to acquire firearms, but subject to the same authorisation/declaration requirements as private persons.

- Brokers will be brought into the scope of the Directive, since they provide services similar to those of dealers. Member States will have to introduce regulation covering the registration, licensing and/or authorisation of brokers and dealers operating within their territory.

The Commission also wants tighter rules on marking of firearms to improve the traceability of weapons by making them harder to erase (e.g. by affixing markings on the receiver), extending the obligation to imported firearms and clarifying on which components the marking should be affixed. Member States will have to keep the data until the destruction of the firearm (i.e. not only for 20 years as currently the case) – and better exchange of information between Member States, for example on any refusal of authorisation decided by another national authority, interconnection of national registers to ensure full European cooperation, and obligations for dealers and brokers to connect their registers to national registers.

Regarding deactivation, this package of measures also includes an Implementing Regulation imposing stringent minimum common guidelines for the deactivation of firearms which will render reactivation much more difficult.

The Firearms Directive specifies that weapons which have been rendered unfit for use are no longer considered firearms but pieces of metal which can move freely within the internal market without authorization/declaration. However, recent experience shows that deactivated arms can be illegally reactivated by using pieces from other deactivated arms, home-made pieces or pieces acquired via the Internet. The fact that there is no harmonised way to deactivate weapons across the EU increases the security risk.

To solve this problem, the Commission has prepared a Regulation that sets out common, strict, harmonised criteria on how Member States must deactivate weapons so they are rendered unfit to use. This is complemented by the ban on the possession of Category A firearms – even when they are deactivated. The Implementing Regulation is based on the criteria for deactivation developed by the Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms (the CIP).

The Commission has been negotiating this Implementing Regulation with Member States since April 2015 in the context of the comitology procedure, with discussions intensifying in the last few weeks. The draft text sent to Member States on Friday 13 November was adopted in committee on 18 November, following which the College adopted the implementing act on the same day.

In summary, the proposed revision of the Firearms Directive will debated by European Parliament and Council in the near future. I understand the Commission are hoping its plans will be approved and come into effect by July 2016. I can assure you I will be monitoring the proposals closely. Although I think the EU needs to play its part in the fight against crime and terrorism, I will not support over-regulation and a knee-jerk reaction.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Bearder MEP

Liberal Democrat member of the European Parliament for the South East of England

Constituency Office

27 Park End Street

Oxford

OX1 1HU

+44 1865 249838

http://www.bearder.eu

The other thing is that to implement any new EU regulation, Britan will have to introduce Retroactive legislation. Currently the De Ac law states that any previously proof house marked De Ac is legal. Hence Old and New Spec. So to include any of these to require further de activation is retroactive. Now that will lead to some very complex Consticional

problems.

Responce from Catherine Bearder MEP................

 

 

 

Dear Constituent,

 

Thank you for your email about possible changes to firearms regulation in the European Union (EU).

 

....

So 95% of her reply is telling you what it is that you wrote to her about! The only original thoughts are "I am minded to support these proposals" and "I will not support over-regulation and a knee-jerk reaction".

I don't know whether to be depressed or very depressed.

I really hope you chaps can keep this from happening. Being from the land of Sam, we have a bit more freedom here but we've still had scares about this sort of things on the west side of the Pond, but most of the time they're restricted to state level nonsense or thankfully stillborn federal issues. We did have one that had some sort of language that would have allowed confiscation/return of former federal property of all sorts from firearms to Military Vehicles. That was stopped by some handy work in committee by some folks in our MVPA & NRA.

The worst thing we have to deal with is the de-activation requirements which require 2 gas torch cuts across the receiver. But for a while ATF has been trying to ban barrels as well. Hopefully one day we'll be able to get rid of USC 922(o). Then I'll be able to have that live BESA for Vandal.

Good luck with the nanny staters.

Why the bloody hell don't the twats in the EU take a leaf out of our book and make every one comply to our deac laws. I have quite a few rifles and pistols, all are new deac and there is no possible way any of them can be made to fire a live round. My 3 Lee Enfield's have a grind out from the breach area right up the barrel to just short of the woods, now there is no way you could ever re-weld and re- rifle the barrel. Why do we always have to tow the bloody line when others don't,:banghead:makes my blood boil. Lets get the F**k out of the EU and make this country great again. :goodidea: or what.

None of the discussion has yet picked up on the fact that many of the assault rifle designs (two I can think of in particular)were adopted widely purely because they are so simple and easy to make; is it not obvious that if procurement of such weapons is made more difficult then people bent on having them will just start knocking out some new ones; quite cheaply too. The way to keep such things of the streets is to make the penalty for illegal possession and supply of such things absolutely draconian i.e. not an electronic tag and a fine.

None of the discussion has yet picked up on the fact that many of the assault rifle designs (two I can think of in particular)were adopted widely purely because they are so simple and easy to make; is it not obvious that if procurement of such weapons is made more difficult then people bent on having them will just start knocking out some new ones; quite cheaply too. The way to keep such things of the streets is to make the penalty for illegal possession and supply of such things absolutely draconian i.e. not an electronic tag and a fine.

One blogger over here quipped that 80% complete Sten receivers may be found at Home Depot on Aisle 21. Mechanically speaking the Magazines are more fiddly than the SMG.

Someone I met at an MV event today, said that the legislation from the European Union to ban deactivated weapons has now been adopted in the UK. Is this true?

It is worth considering that not everyone here is British, not everyone lives in Britain. The point surely is to discuss the legislation, and not the value of the EU, nor to devalue the opinions of EU citizens nor those living elsewhere.

trevor, living in Poland

Oh well, a Yes or No will have to do; so which is it in answer to my question above?

My informant who claimed to be a re-enactor said there was a prosecution pending, which I find hard to believe, as surely someone in government would have to announce it in the houses of parliament. Laws don't just appear do they without discussion?

I know that ignorance of the law in the UK is no defence and everyone including those with a half a brain cell will know that it is a crime if you kill or injure another person, or rape, rob, steal, defraud etc - but if it suddenly becomes a crime to carry a walking stick or 'be in possession of an imitation walking stick' after years and years of simple pleasure and enjoyment of ownership without causing any harm, it's not right that I should be arrested at an event when all I wanted to do was talk to the public and educate them as to how walking sticks were used in the past. It's enough to make me go over the top but not in the way my grandfather did in WW1 with his stick!

"Laws don't just appear do they without discussion"

Yes they do.