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Frustration Vs Satisfaction


Topdog

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Isnt it a pain when an engine won't run properly, it seemed to be fuel starvation but not sure.

 

Petrol tank was dirty - removed, filled with gravel and bounced around and agitated until clean. It was then flushed dried refitted.

New fuel lines all through - check

New fuel filter - check. Old one was full of Shiite.

Small ancillary automatic fuel pump bypassed.

Small in line hand operated fuel pump cleaned. check. That was shockingly full of crud, I was convinced I had found the cause.

 

The engine will then start but not rev freely, will not pull any power and cuts out.

 

Previously, the carb had been removed, all gaskets renewed and main jet cleaned, float checked.

 

Still wont pull any power and I am losing the will to live.

 

Oh yes, plugs points leads gaps etc all checked and good.

 

Clean fresh fuel put in.

 

NOPE, still wont work

 

Hmm, there are 3 small screws on the carb, one of which is idle speed but I don't know what the other 2 are. I guess mixture and something else. I think from the colour of the plugs and that it wont take large throttle openings that it is running rich but it seems to start better with choke.

 

So I counted the turns on one screw, remove it, and it is a needle screw. A dammed good squirt of brake cleaner through it and woohoo.

That seems to have done it. Now I have to play gently with the screws to try and maximise performance.

 

Happy motoring folks

 

Dave

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Dave,

I am guessing you are talking about a Ferret? (Recall you having one). If the two screws are near the base flange of the carb, then these are mixture screws for the two bores (chokes). The carb is in effect two carbs, so to adjust them you need to ensure they are both at the same basic adjustment and tweak each one a fraction alternatively until you are happy with the idle mixture. If it then runs too fast or slow, adjust the idle screw.

 

regards, Richard

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Mutter mutter.

 

The Argo is sitting on my drive and seems to be running ok. It even holds a nice full throttle so off I go down the road...... for about 50 yards, when it stops - Dead. Nicely placed opposite a parked car and so I am blocking the road to all but pushbikes.

 

Frantic engine cranking manages to produce enough GO to pull into the road side and a guy comes out with his kids and offers to push - Thanks Phil.

 

I finally get the engine going again but this time cannot engage reverse so we push it backwards. Even light vehicles are dammed heavy up a slight slope.

 

Next move, go get car and tow Argo back onto driveway.

 

The only thing that hasn't been changed is condenser. I will get a new one, but I thought these either worked or didn't.

 

The other thing is some sort of sealed electronic module with 3 leads linked to condenser coil and points.

 

Any ideas folks?

 

Dave

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Mutter mutter.

 

The Argo is sitting on my drive and seems to be running ok. It even holds a nice full throttle so off I go down the road...... for about 50 yards, when it stops - Dead. Nicely placed opposite a parked car and so I am blocking the road to all but pushbikes.

 

Frantic engine cranking manages to produce enough GO to pull into the road side and a guy comes out with his kids and offers to push - Thanks Phil.

 

I finally get the engine going again but this time cannot engage reverse so we push it backwards. Even light vehicles are dammed heavy up a slight slope.

 

Next move, go get car and tow Argo back onto driveway.

 

The only thing that hasn't been changed is condenser. I will get a new one, but I thought these either worked or didn't.

 

The other thing is some sort of sealed electronic module with 3 leads linked to condenser coil and points.

 

Any ideas folks?

 

Dave

 

Dave,

This ignition system sounds a bit like the Boyer Bransden inductive discharge set up, which had a sealed module with, I think 4 wires and fitted between coil and points. It could be a faulty condenser as they will often fail as they warm up, could also be coil.

Richard

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Thanks Richard,

 

Condenser is being changed when I can get one. How do I test the coil? Again, I would expect that they either worked or were duff.

Obviously a couple of more things to check.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Thanks Richard,

 

Condenser is being changed when I can get one. How do I test the coil? Again, I would expect that they either worked or were duff.

Obviously a couple of more things to check.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Dave,

I have no idea what engine is in your Argo so unsure as to type of coil and ignition system.

Many years ago, I worked on a very early Argocat, a bit like a bathtub and think it had a single cylinder stationary engine like on a compressor or generator, could have been a Tecumseh or similar.

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I recently had a similar problem with my Ford GPW. I went for a 25 mile run and it never missed a beat, switched off for ten minutes and it refused to start ! I replaced condenser, points, rotor arm and cap at roadside and she fired up, problem solved or so I thought :D However nearing home she started missing and struggled the last mile before dying again. I replaced the coil with a new one and all now seems fine. I believe the coil was breaking down once warm (hence it restarting when it had cooled down), and talking to the local classic car garage they have seen the same many times.

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Aarrrrgh.

 

Still not right. Fuel system is fine but the running is getting worse. This time I know (ha ha) that it is sparks or lack of. I think that the coil is failing.

 

I tried direct battery ignition to the coil because I wasn't getting any impulse feed from the stator loop from the flywheel but having cleaned those contacts I believe that this is now ok.

 

The coil was getting quite hot when used and I think this has broken down. I am currently (no pun intended) sourcing a replacement coil but may have to bodge a car one to fit.

 

By the way, if I put a totally different engine in, does that count as mended?

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Dave,

It might have helped if you said what engine was fitted and someone might be familiar with it, up to now, no clues on its type, even a photo of it might help.

If you have put power to the coil, assume 12 volts, are you sure the coil was a 12v one? I am assuming the power for ignition comes from the flywheel, like the old flywheel mags on 2-stroke motorcycles, mowers etc. You also mentioned a module, this might have suffered by connecting a battery to it, not only voltage but polarity could affect the module.

If we knew more about this engine, it might be easier to diagnose.

 

Richard

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Sorry Richard, it is a 17hp twin cylinder Kohler. All the electrics are 12v and the coil runs 1 input from the stator/magneto coil and 1 low tension connector to the points. It then has 2 high tension outputs to the plugs. The points are opened by a pushrod coming out of the block. I assume that the 2 high tension leads fire together on a lost spark system.

 

Its really a twin cylinder lawnmower engine

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Sorry Richard, it is a 17hp twin cylinder Kohler. All the electrics are 12v and the coil runs 1 input from the stator/magneto coil and 1 low tension connector to the points. It then has 2 high tension outputs to the plugs. The points are opened by a pushrod coming out of the block. I assume that the 2 high tension leads fire together on a lost spark system.

 

Its really a twin cylinder lawnmower engine

 

Ok thanks Dave,

From what you say about stator/magneto coil, this leads me to believe this is a self generating ignition and there fore might not be 12v, or does this flywheel generator charge the 12v electrics (assume for starter) ? Points by pushrod, so must run off the camshaft.

Did things get worse after you connect a battery straight to the coil?

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Richard, I have totally cleaned and replaced fuel pipes, filters etc. Supply is direct to carb with no fuel cutoff.

I cannot get any visual spark at the moment by earthing a plug to the engine casing and there is no hint of firing. After leaving the ignition on for a period while I tinkered with something else, the coil was quite hot on the outside of the case and now there is no spark at all so, I think that I have cooked the coil.

 

I will be trying to hook up another coil when I can get something.

 

Dave

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  • 1 month later...

OH YES. DONE IT.

 

Having checked the coil and tried another one. Checked and chased all the wiring back.

 

Took the cover off the points and it started....... ran beautifully!

 

Finally, found that the points cover was just touching the points and earthing it all to the engine casing. I have now insulated it and bingo. I am SURE that the problem is now sorted.

 

Thanks to all who offered help. Now then, to try it in water with a small outboard attached - what could possibly go wrong?

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OH YES. DONE IT.

 

...... ran beautifully!

 

Finally, found that the points cover was just touching the points and earthing it all to the engine casing. I have now insulated it and bingo. I am SURE that the problem is now sorted. ....

 

 

 

Hi

 

Always good to hear what the actual problem on one of these mystery problems. Particularly as what you found in the end is not vehicle specific but could be a problem for any gasoline powered MV.

 

Cheers Phil

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