question Scorpion or Scimitar?

A true novice question , but just so I don't confuse the issue or offend the experienced...

If one owns a composite vehicle (ie Scimitar with a 76mm fitted) what does one call it?

If you are standing outside it sure looks a Scorpion but if you peer into the murky darkness at the dataplate it's not.

Shuzan held out his short staff and said: “If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality. If you do not call it a short staff, you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?”

You can call it what you like, but I would say the turret defines it. I have seen a couple of Scorpion hulls which were converted to Sabres (Fox turret) and then later rebuilt as Scimitars with diesel conversion etc.

What you DON'T call it is a tank!

If this is a tank, the original Mk1, then why isn't a Scorpion, Scimitar or Sabre a tank? albeit a light tank.

Diana

What you DON'T call it is a tank!

Acording to the RTR (Royal Tank Tegiment) a Tank is a vehicle designed for combat against other AFV's . A CVR(T) or CVR(W) is a reconnasince vehicle, you look you see you *** Off!

Acording to the RTR (Royal Tank Tegiment) a Tank is a vehicle designed for combat against other AFV's . A CVR(T) or CVR(W) is a reconnasince vehicle, you look you see you *** Off!

So Tony a CVRT Striker has an anti tank guided missile system designed to destroy AFVs, is this a tank?

TUT TUT ..Such bad language and attitude.

Doesn't the MK1 tank predate the RTR..or is that wrong too?

Diana

Acording to the RTR (Royal Tank Tegiment) a Tank is a vehicle designed for combat against other AFV's . A CVR(T) or CVR(W) is a reconnasince vehicle, you look you see you *** Off!

As told to me by a RTR Seargent in charge of three CVR(T) that visited Jersey as part of the Liberation Day celebrations a few years back. The Lieutent Govenor, the Queen's Represenataive on the Island (Jersey and Gurnersey don't have Govenors! The Monarch as Duchess of Normandy rules!) was an Ex Colonel of the RTR. He was delighted in that I called them CVR(T)'s not tanks and knew the brown red and green stripes of the regimental flag meant through the mud and the blood to green feilds beyond. :angel: Originally the tanks were known as the Heavy Section Machine Gun Corps. Then became the Royal Tank Regiment 28 July 1917, and still jealously gaurd the difrrences bettween themselves and the Royal Armoured Corp that only came into being around 1923.

Back off to the Rock tomorrow for the 70th Anniversay celebrations next Saturday May 9th.

So Tony a CVRT Striker has an anti tank guided missile system designed to destroy AFVs, is this a tank?

Course not! :wow: That would make it Anti Tank! Totally diffrent. That's an infantary job! Now the argument about APC and IFV starts?:cool2:

OH P. S. Richard Le Brock has a Scorpion CVR(T) on the Rock, so that will probably be out.

The BBC calls it a tank. Airfix call it a tank and David Fletcher of the Tank Museum calls Little Willie or The Mk 1 tank a tank..It follows logically therefore that you and your bigwig mates are wrong.

Sorry about that but cant be right with such evidence stacked against you.

Diana

As told to me by a RTR Seargent in charge of three CVR(T) that visited Jersey as part of the Liberation Day celebrations a few years back. The Lieutent Govenor, the Queen's Represenataive on the Island (Jersey and Gurnersey don't have Govenors! The Monarch as Duchess of Normandy rules!) was an Ex Colonel of the RTR. He was delighted in that I called them CVR(T)'s not tanks and knew the brown red and green stripes of the regimental flag meant through the mud and the blood to green feilds beyond. :angel: Originally the tanks were known as the Heavy Section Machine Gun Corps. Then became the Royal Tank Regiment 28 July 1917, and still jealously gaurd the difrrences bettween themselves and the Royal Armoured Corp that only came into being around 1923.

 

Back off to the Rock tomorrow for the 70th Anniversay celebrations next Saturday May 9th.

 

Back off to the Rock tomorrow for the 70th Anniversay celebrations next Saturday May 9th.

Might give everyone else a chance to get back on topic then.

my history is a little rusty but were they not called tanks in world war 1 to disguise theyr'e real identity as land ships and the female tank was armed with machine guns only ?

Just to throw another spanner in the works, during the Thirties, Vickers produced a whole range of light armoured tracked vehicles, called ....... Light Tanks ! The later ones like the MkVI were smaller than a CVR(T) and less well armed than one, still known as tanks though.

What is annoying is people referring to SP artillery, such Abbot with the T word.

Just to throw another spanner in the works, during the Thirties, Vickers produced a whole range of light armoured tracked vehicles, called ....... Light Tanks ! The later ones like the MkVI were smaller than a CVR(T) and less well armed than one, still known as tanks though.

What is annoying is people referring to SP artillery, such Abbot with the T word.

 

Yes and those annoying people who bring said Self Propelled Artillery to Tank Fest!

I'm fighting a rear guard action against people refering to my FV434 as a tank. I think that we have to accept that language moves on and that in the minds of the public, any tracked armoured vehicle is a tank in the same way that a steam locomotive is a train (which also gets me going).

David

If you take a submarine out of water and fill it with water it then becomes a tank!

Though of course if you took a tankette and filled that full of water would it be a fishpond?

:laugh:

Diana

I'm fighting a rear guard action against people refering to my FV434 as a tank. I think that we have to accept that language moves on and that in the minds of the public, any tracked armoured vehicle is a tank in the same way that a steam locomotive is a train (which also gets me going).

 

David

You can call it what you like, but I would say the turret defines it. I have seen a couple of Scorpion hulls which were converted to Sabres (Fox turret) and then later rebuilt as Scimitars with diesel conversion etc.

Better advice than my friend who suggested "Scorpitar". Of course that was better than his other: "Simian".

Now, what about a sturgeon without the MCT installed but the box is there, is it a Spartan or not?

The BBC calls it a tank. Airfix call it a tank and David Fletcher of the Tank Museum calls Little Willie or The Mk 1 tank a tank..It follows logically therefore that you and your bigwig mates are wrong.

 

Sorry about that but cant be right with such evidence stacked against you.

 

Diana

The Military are very particular! I took a vehicle to Sandhurst College. One of thier monuments is called 'The Mortar' the guy giving me directions told me to turn left and park to the side of The Mortar, and then spent another five minutes explaning in great detail why it was not really a moretar but a Howitzer, it's a man thing ! We like a proper description of our toys. Though the next one to call my Dodges or Discovery the J word is likley to have a long lingering death.

So in my loft I clearly have a water reconnaissance vehicle?

trevor

If you take a submarine out of water and fill it with water it then becomes a tank!

Not so - HMS Alliance at the submarine museum is out of the water but still a submarine! :angel:

Andy

I am long past trying to explain to civvies who don't want to be told why Scorpion is not a tank. My life is too short.

The fact that the hull originally had a Scimitar turret on it is irrelevant, it now has a Scorpion turret on and is therefore a Scorpion.

My Sabre started out as a Scorpion but now has a Fox turret on it, but that doesn't make it either of those - it's now a Sabre..

The tank argument has been done many times before, and I suspect Tony has tongue firmly in cheek...!

Spent yesterday Liberation Day parked up next to a Scorpion, wincing every time someone said 'OOH LOOK!!! A TANK'.

The names of military items will change over the years. There will be people on this Forum who have no idea what a 'bondhook' is. Leave it for a bit those who know and let some suggestions come in. BTW it is not getatable on Google...