question Question for any REME Armourers out there.

Hi guys.

I am looking for the procedure to re-charge the recuperator fitted to the Chieftain MBT 120mm weapon.

I have been scratching my head for months on this one as when the tank is in motion, the weapons barrel moves up and down to the point where it hits the driver on the head!

The pressure gauge is reading zero when it should be a minimum of 500 lbf/in.

It is my understanding the recuperator will hold the gun at rest so I need to recharge the system.

The problem is I have searched through all the manuals and the only thing tank crews can do is check the gauge. Where pressure is down, it states it must be reported to the REME so I am presuming it is an Amourers task to re-charge the system?

I have found two, what I would class as possible charging points on the recuperator but for the life of me can't see how the charging is done, unless you boys were issued with some type of adapter to complete the job.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Markheliops

Can't wait till you find out as we can do ours as well.

I was told by someone that this happens because we run around with the stabilisation off, don't know how true this is.

Mark, This is NOT a Job for Armourers! It is a 'Gun Fitter's' task Mate.

It recuperator would be charged with Nitrogen, or Dry Air I believe. It has to be an Inert Gas to remain safe, If damaged in action. The crew would suffer otherwise! :nut:

Right up to today though. Gun fitters no longer exist in British Army Service! (They call it 'Progress'?.....)

It is now an Armourers task to look after Ordanance, as well as Small Arms & Machine Guns. If an Armr is attached to a unit with Artillery, Or Armour (Tanks) He would go on an Equipment course, far that particular Weapon at the unit he will be attached to.

The trade is now called, Armourer * :-)

I don't know about the Chieftain but on the Abbot there are two distinct systems, the recuperator which looks after recoil and the equilibrator that balances the weight of the barrel. Does the Chieftain have only one system that does both?

Andy

I don't know about the Chieftain but on the Abbot there are two distinct systems, the recuperator which looks after recoil and the equibrilator that balances the weight of the barrel. Does the Chieftain have only one system that does both?

 

Andy

The two serviceable components on a Scorpion's L23A1 were the recuperator and the buffer.

Because the breech was heavier than the barrel, the gunner had drummed into him always to end the gun lay in ... damn after 40 years I've forgotten. Elevation or depression. To take up any slack in a uniform manner. Whereas the Chieftain gunner was instructed to end the lay in the opposite direction because the barrel was heavier than the breech.

Suggests to me that neither had an equilibrator.

But I could be wrong, I am, regularly.

I am also interested in this. Does anyone know?

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Bounced the question off an ex-REME mate who in turn is asking some of his old crew. If I get an answer I'll post it up.

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Afternoon All !

Thanks for the nudge Neil - dunno if I'll be of any use but more info is needed :cool2:

It appears that the recuperator merely keeps the gun fully forward so although there may be an issue with the recuperator it isn't likely to be responsible for the 'bouncing'.

When does this occur ? Is it all the time or only when the FVGCE is run up ?

I have lost elevation on my gun. I think it could be metedyne related. I believe that when travelling along it is best to put the gun in stab or trav. Is that correct.

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Afternoon All !

 

Thanks for the nudge Neil - dunno if I'll be of any use but more info is needed :cool2:

 

It appears that the recuperator merely keeps the gun fully forward so although there may be an issue with the recuperator it isn't likely to be responsible for the 'bouncing'.

 

When does this occur ? Is it all the time or only when the FVGCE is run up ?

 

Sorry Bob but I have to disagree.

I've checked the RAC Chieftain Armament Manual and it states:

The recoil system consists of two hydraulic buffer cylinders, a replenisher and a hydro-pneumatic recuperator contained in cylinders around the cradle. The function of these components is as follows:

A) - To hold the gun at the firing position at all angles of elevation.

B) - To absorb the recoil energy.

C) - To achieve a fixed length of recoil at all angles of elevation.

D) - To return the gun to the firing position.

In my own mind, the gun is bouncing up and down due to it's weight at the block end. Therefore some system must "hold" the gun as in A above.

The gun moves in relation to the terrain even when the FVGCE is up and running. I can only put this down to there being no pressure in the system as shown on the gauge.

I'm trying to look at this logically but I could be wrong.

I'll soon know if I manage to charge the recuperator.

Markheliops

I have lost elevation on my gun. I think it could be metedyne related. I believe that when travelling along it is best to put the gun in stab or trav. Is that correct.

 

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The manual does also state the gun should be housed in the gun crutch when traveling unless on fire and maneuver so one would assume the gun should be powered up when released from the gun crutch.

I still cant understand why the gun will not remain at rest and still even with the gun kit powered up?

I've checked the RAC Chieftain Armament Manual and it states:

 

The recoil system consists of two hydraulic buffer cylinders, a replenisher and a hydro-pneumatic recuperator contained in cylinders around the cradle. The function of these components is as follows:

 

A) - To hold the gun at the firing position at all angles of elevation.

B) - To absorb the recoil energy.

C) - To achieve a fixed length of recoil at all angles of elevation.

D) - To return the gun to the firing position.

 

In my own mind, the gun is bouncing up and down due to it's weight at the block end. Therefore some system must "hold" the gun as in A above.

 

Markheliops

Mark, surely "hold the gun at the firing position" in A above means 'in battery', ie. not partly recoiled due to its own weight making it slide back if it was elevated. What elevation it is at is an entirely seperate subject and as you have said you should be either running around with the gun locked in its crutch or with the stabliser on. Even if it were perfecty balanced, as the vehicle moves it pitches slightly in all directions and to force the gun to do the same by locking it to the turret would put a huge strain on the lock, so it was easier to use the stabliser to keep it pointing in one direction regardless of vehicle movement. Without the stabaliser on it WILL bounce around uncontrolably.

Think of how much easier it is to carry a long heavy object (6m of steel pipe for example) by holding it in the middle and not trying to tip it forward and back with every step you take. But if you don't guide it and you arn't holding it dead in the middle it will not stay horizontal by itself.

David

What you have said makes sense David.

I'll have another bash with full gun kit on Stab!

Something else to bear in mind chaps - you should always have the run back stop fitted when elevating the gun.

You really wouldn't want to be behind the breech block when it slides back because trust me, you wouldn't be able to stop it!

In fact, the Chieftain turret is not a place for unfamiliar persons when the powered gun kit is running.

Stand in the wrong place at the wrong time and you could lose a number of limbs!

Perhaps not quite as bad as the T62with its (in)famous autoloader :-)

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As a suggestion for the safety for Tank owners in Civilian ownership.

If it is present, I would recommend the run back stop be fitted at all times!

After all, if you think about it. you are NOT going to Firing live rounds in the UK. If you have it 'Live' on you F.A.C!

Just about ALL of the major component's on Armoured vehicles. Are very HEAVY! It is only too easy to lose a finger/ limb,

or get crushed!..................:nut:

The two serviceable components on a Scorpion's L23A1 were the recuperator and the buffer.

 

Because the breech was heavier than the barrel, the gunner had drummed into him always to end the gun lay in ... damn after 40 years I've forgotten. Elevation or depression. To take up any slack in a uniform manner. Whereas the Chieftain gunner was instructed to end the lay in the opposite direction because the barrel was heavier than the breech.

 

Suggests to me that neither had an equilibrator.

 

But I could be wrong, I am, regularly.

Easy one to remember when boar sighting " Break your lay, re lay and end your lay in one of elevation"

You always moved "up" to the target to take up slack in the gears. On the 30mm raden cannon.

Ahem!.................BORE sighting............

cpltomo,

As I remember it, with the Rarden you ended your lay in elevation because of the weight of the boresight.

When lobbing them downrange, didn't we end our lay in depression?

Anyway, enough of little toys, back to 120mm stuff. Carry on!

'Chas.'

I was going to say that it seems a little unsporting to go boar hunting with a 30mm RARDON cannon. Not much left for the barby I wouldn`t think either!!

Easy one to remember when boar sighting " Break your lay, re lay and end your lay in one of elevation"

You always moved "up" to the target to take up slack in the gears. On the 30mm raden cannon.

Correct. I am pretty sure it was ditto for the also-long-barrelled Chieftain, but other way round for short-barrelled Scorpion.

Stop running back should be fitted at all times, and indeed the last batch of Chieftains to be released had them welded in place to stop any civvy accidents occuring the same as in service accidents. The recuperator will slowly loose its pressure through lack of use-even if not being fired, the gun should be routinely 'pulled back' to keep cylinder packings and seals supple (ie not leak)

Use the schrader valve next to the pressure gauge block to pressurise the system

A word of caution-do not use the powered gun system without a breech block fitted (its such a heavy weight, it cannot compensate without it) and check for creep (correct balance) by powering up the GCE, both metadynes, turn on stab, squeeze clutch release on either controller, and the gun should remain perfectly still (if not trim firstly on the coarse adjustment (screws) then on fine (the golfball knobs) Hope this helps!

Stop running back should be fitted at all times, and indeed the last batch of Chieftains to be released had them welded in place to stop any civvy accidents occuring the same as in service accidents. The recuperator will slowly loose its pressure through lack of use-even if not being fired, the gun should be routinely 'pulled back' to keep cylinder packings and seals supple (ie not leak)

Use the schrader valve next to the pressure gauge block to pressurise the system

A word of caution-do not use the powered gun system without a breech block fitted (its such a heavy weight, it cannot compensate without it) and check for creep (correct balance) by powering up the GCE, both metadynes, turn on stab, squeeze clutch release on either controller, and the gun should remain perfectly still (if not trim firstly on the coarse adjustment (screws) then on fine (the golfball knobs) Hope this helps!

Thanks Terry - I'll have a look for the schrader valve as I can't find it.

Mark I have recently bought the kit valve connecter etc. That charges the brakes and gun from a nitrogen bottle. I haven't tries it yet and don't know if it is all there.

Mark I have recently bought the kit valve connecter etc. That charges the brakes and gun from a nitrogen bottle. I haven't tries it yet and don't know if it is all there.

I have the charging lead to charge the brake system but I still can't find any valve to pressurise the main weapon.

Terry - have you got a picture of this valve?

I know the CVRT Scorpion has one but can't find it on the Chieftain.