Ml 1 Militant

Having just sold my Stalwart in part due to lack of storage and in more part because I found I could not legally drive her on the road as I only have a B license I've been feeling pretty gutted - even though I know the old girl has gone to a good home with a forum member.

So it came as a nice surprise when another member sent me the link to a MilWeb advert for a Mk 1 Militant for sale. First act was to e-mail the seller asking the build date - answer was 1958 so it fits the driving bill quite nicely. Fitted in the back for living so saving a job I had planned if I could have found something.

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=73031&cat=4

Now to attempt persuading the wife it is a good idea - and then overcome the 7,000 other problems

Having just sold my Stalwart in part due to lack of storage and in more part because I found I could not legally drive her on the road as I only have a B license I've been feeling pretty gutted - even though I know the old girl has gone to a good home with a forum member.

 

So it came as a nice surprise when another member sent me the link to a MilWeb advert for a Mk 1 Militant for sale. First act was to e-mail the seller asking the build date - answer was 1958 so it fits the driving bill quite nicely. Fitted in the back for living so saving a job I had planned if I could have found something.

 

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=73031&cat=4

 

Now to attempt persuading the wife it is a good idea - and then overcome the 7,000 other problems

hi i to have mk1 milly for sale it,s a 6x4 1956 with living acc in the back if interested

hi i to have mk1 milly for sale it,s a 6x4 1956 with living acc in the back if interested

Interesting - PM sent

'double bed and leather sofa'? I did once keep a sponge mattress in the back of my van, for camping purposes, honest!

Were all Militants used for artillery or recovery roles, or did they have other uses?

trevor

There were cargo variants in both 6x4 and 6x6 configurations as well as tippers, tankers and cranes.

I would go so far as to say that the vast majority were cargo variants - I know of only a handful of Mk1 wreckers. There were a few with 5th wheels, some tippers, some gun tractors and some tankers.

I had both GS and bridging variants in my first troop, as well as two CL registered hard-sided trucks (you could only load them from the back and they were used to carry jerrycans by the hundred - what a joy they were to load and unload!) and a couple of 6x4 tankers.

That is interesting, and I did wonder because most of the images I have seen relates to the same types. I can see I need to get out more in Militant land...

trevor

There were also long and short wheelbase versions as well as 6x4 and 6x6! I took my Class 2 test in 6x4 3 way tippers - these were the short wheel base - as C Troop of 215 Sqn RCT ® was tasked as an Engineer support unit. Not that we ever did that. On exercise the tippers stayed home at Mile End Road in London and we drew what ever was allocated from the vehicle depots in Germany. Last trip out with them I wound up as a POL driver and was issued a 6x6 GS and a stores voucher for more jerry cans than I ever want to see again. As PaulBrook says - they really were a joy to load and unload - not!! Took me about 15 minutes to get back into the rhythm of double declutching after a spell of RL driving and then it was a breeze. IIRC the vehicle I had was 08 ET 10 - and she was RHD...

Being as I came from a TA Unit and given the antipathy between Regular and TA units back in those days it may come as no surprise that the storemen took the voucher then sat back and counted me fill the back of the Militant with hundreds of cans stacked 2 deep. Then I had to drive to the POL point, hand over another voucher then enjoy entertaining the regulars there by hand balling the whole lot off again, filling them with the allotted 20 litres each and then hand balling the whole lot back on. And thank to illness just prior to StartEx my co-driver had failed to show so I was operating solo...

That said - the rest of the time was one of the best I had - roll into a laagerpoint at a map ref and report to the command tent who organised the vehicles needing fuel and the crews would lend a hand refuelling. Once done the empty cans were tallied up and reported back to exercise HQ whereupon I would get another map ref and toddle off - either to refuel another unit or - worst - another POL point to replenish the cans after getting a meal and numerous mugs of tea. Did this for the fortnight, basically just me and the knocker roaming all over the Hartz Gap.

Some people hated the Militants for the noise, lack of power steering and synchro but I loved them.

Fingers crossed for you, Neil!

Andy

For some reason I have the number 420 cans to a load in my head. On the hard sides the tailgate had a fold-down step, so to load the cans you loaded the tailgate step and then jumped up and boosted them into the cargo area. A sort of pre-taillift tailift..

The tankies at the time still loved jerrycans, 20 per panzer then round again for the empties. Although hard work it was very quick and in later years we were hard pressed to match the rate with TTFs and MEFD kit.

They might have a soft spot in many memories but the knockers did not suffer fools gladly - they were and are quite dangerous things, especially with the air-on brakes.

If anyone wants to give one a decent and loving home though I could be persuaded. If its 08DM59 so much the better.

For some reason I have the number 420 cans to a load in my head. On the hard sides the tailgate had a fold-down step, so to load the cans you loaded the tailgate step and then jumped up and boosted them into the cargo area. A sort of pre-taillift tailift..

 

The tankies at the time still loved jerrycans, 20 per panzer then round again for the empties. Although hard work it was very quick and in later years we were hard pressed to match the rate with TTFs and MEFD kit.

 

They might have a soft spot in many memories but the knockers did not suffer fools gladly - they were and are quite dangerous things, especially with the air-on brakes.

 

If anyone wants to give one a decent and loving home though I could be persuaded. If its 08DM59 so much the better.

My instructor at the time I was learning summed them up as "anyone can drive an RL but the knockers don't suffer fools gladly" :cheesy:

That said the guy who got in after me had never driven anything in his life and proceeded to take one around the training course we had set up at North Weald (before the M11 existed) changing up and down the box as though it had full synchro..... Just goes to show. :cheesy:

Good point about brakes - and braking generally - much forethought was required as they were not particularly fast to stop. Nowhere near as bad as a Pig I suspect but bad enough in their own way if you forget that little trait. If possible I'd rumble around the vehicle park a couple of times (a) to remind myself of the heavy steering and slow braking compared to the RL and (b) to get a feel for that particular vehicles abilities. I still used to love them though - it was always a challenge driving one and if you could roll along happily going up and down the box without any horrible grinding noises you got out with a sense of accomplishment.

The tippers had the hand throttle on the floor beside the drivers seat and on long empty stretches of road (yes - we had them back then!!) the usual dodge was to set the hand throttle and use it as a form of cruise control.

IIRC - one particularly nasty vice - from the co-drivers point of view was a tendency to blow a top hose - which then dumped boiling hot coolant in the co-drivers lap threatening to cook his favourite genitalia !! Cab fuel gauges varied from wildly optimistic to wildly pessimistic and the only accurate one was on the tank itself. And if you wanted a normal conversation within an hour of driving any distance ear defenders were a must! :cheesy:

Don't recall a fold-down step on the GS models - just a hole/holes for the boots so the method I used to use for empties when operating solo was to drop one side completely, push as many cans on as I could then climb up and stack them across the vehicle string a rope through the handles to keep the upper tier from falling in transit - we used to leave about 2 can widths free at the back so that the empties could be stacked against the tail gate and then forwards thus segregating empties from full - useful on dark nights in woods and so that we could actually have somewhere to get in and out whilst loading. During the refuelling process we would drop a side gate for access. Or somewhere for the despatch riders to put the bits that fell of their B40's whenever there where enough of us to form a convoy:cheesy:

Full cans were put on in a row along both sides then the "climb up and stack" process was repeated until all the full cans were on board. Never once had assistance from a POL point "attendant". :cheesy: For preference I would volunteer for the diesel runs as then you carried your own fuel supply on board. I remember a couple of guys on the petrol run getting stranded when they ran out of diesel.... Not long after that the decision was made to use RL's for the petrol runs even though it meant two RL's for 1 knocker. UBRE's were coming just just as I transfered out of 215 to 21.

420 cans... I honestly cannot remember now what it was other than they were stacked across the load bed in two tiers and there was a bloody lot of them. I think it was 6 or 8 cans across and that's it. :-( Old age is a terrible thing!! I do remember quite well that falling out the back on slippery diesel hurt quite a bit and if some had leant their SLR against the back of the vehicle as you kicked the tailgate down they wound up with an SLR that would shoot around corners... :shocked:

The other red flag run - ammo - was a lot simpler as invariably it was palletised and loaded/off-loaded by Eager Beavers. :cheesy:

Did you sleep on top of the engine cowling to keep warm on exercise??

Sleep in the cab!! Wash your mouth out!!

How can you defend your location from inside the cab??

Sleep in the cab!! Wash your mouth out!!

 

How can you defend your location from inside the cab??

Defend your location?? that's what you have infantry for!! Engineers are too busy doing engineering things, than worry about that sort of trivia

As for sleeping in the cab, the more enterprising drivers would have acquired a couple of lengths of 4 by 2 and a bit of plywood that fitted across behind the seats, resting on the window sills, the perfect bed.

Couple of other points from the thread, all the GS cargos I ever saw had the 2 piece tailgate providing the extra step.

The Royal Engineers used them for allsorts of lifting and shifting, as well as the tippers. Anything from stores wagons, to mobile workshops, to bridge trains and plant support.

I think they are just the perfect truck. and British built to boot.

Slow, noisy, slightly fragile in some areas, no heater (icy active edge callouts called for a bluey gas burner to defrost the screens) and self-exploding batteries and as I say brakes that could (and did) kill they were a lot better at shifting stuff around than say 4 tonners or stalwarts but they were greatly outclassed by the Mk3s. I have a soft spot for them but if we were to stand a cats chance of doing what we were supposed to have done had 3 Shock Army decided to move westwards then sadly they were not up to it. Which of course is what DROPS was all about

Anyway we must have been warry in 6 Sqn because we didn't sleep in the cabs. Must have been all the time we spent with the gooners.

Sleeping in the cab - hey - I was just the delivery driver cum fuel pouring person. 6 to 9 hours driving a Mk1 and 4 hours refuelling on average meant I crashed and those in receipt of the fuel got to do the warry thing :-)

Never got to play with Mk 3's alas and even if I did back then - I could not get one now as they are well and truly post 1 Jan 1960. As for 3rd Shock Army - the average speed of a Mk 1 was reckoned on being 18 to 20 mph with a top speed of 30 mph give or take a couple of MPH - we used to reckon if the Russians had rolled we would have perfect views of their exhausts as they raced past.... :-)

Did have one troop sergeant who, as a HGV fitter by trade, thought they might be "encouraged" to go a tad faster so he modified the governor, I think and yes we got one up to 40 on the straight. Not only did it take an age to slow down again but on a tight corner the lead wheel of the inside bogey decided to burst into flame. Cue panicky moments with a fire extinguisher and some creative store-keeping to account for the new tyre..... :wow:

Oh yes - one other thing they were good for - was removing the roof's off MGB's on Salisbury plain. We had an exercise which involved running on convoy lights only so two of us were posted as sentries at the entrances of all the public roads into the exercise area.. I was with a guy called Paddy Hart (guess where this is going..) and we opted to take it in turns to slow each incoming driver down with the red torch and warm them to exercise care as heavy vehicles were likely to be crossing the roads unlit. Stopped the first guy OK around midnight and a while later no 2 comes along. Paddy waves the red light and the guy slowed to a stop, Paddy ambles up to the drivers window, bends down and, with SLR in hands say in a deep Irish accent "Excuse me sir" - halfway through the "sir" the driver cured his constipation and floored it. Paddy comes back and asks was it something he said which was followed by an almighty crash from down the road. We legged it to the source of the noise and found that the guy who booted it had met a Mk 1 GS crossing the road and gone under almost in the middle of the gap between the fuel tank and the leading axle... Shaken and very stirred was probably the best description of the driver and write off the best description of the MGB......

Very cold very wet night on some endless FTX in the middle of NW Germany. It is deep in a wood and as usual the trucks had done the sort of hours of driving that would give an EU beaurocrat heart failure and a very very tired paket of knockers trundles up to the checkpoint of the entry to the Divisional Support Area (DSA) which would best be described as a very very large goose egg of varied real estate with all the commodities ground loaded ready for collection and distribution.

The DSA by the way was so big that it would take about 3 hours to drive around - all off road and without lights.

The last thing that was needed was a snarl up on the circuit then.

Cue this convoy arriving...

Now we were going through a bit of a password revolution and some bushy tailed Staff Officer in The Good Ideas Club had decided that the double daily changing letter system (eg challenge XRAY DELTA! Response JULIET SIERRA) was just too difficult for your average squaddie to remember, and had introduced a simple word-word system.

It was after midnight and the password had just changed to "Reverse Combination". So first truck trundles up with the rest close behind. Up jumps the sentry who hisses "REVERSE!". Righty ho says first driver, crunching into reverse, and the rest they say is history. Being a knocker it killed the one behind with the dummy chassis into the radiator and the two of them then took out the one behind that etc etc etc.

The joys...........

Reminds me of an incident on Ex Crusader '80. An RMP Land Rover is escorting a REME stores knocker across Belgium on its way back to the ferry. I am following the REME and a couple of other wagons are behind me. Late in the evening and approaching a set of traffic lights, at the last moment lights change to red.

RMP slam on brakes, Rover stops dead. Knocker slams on brakes and bats the rover across junction into path of other traffic. Fortunately no one died, but it was a brown trouser moment for the RMP lads and their Rover was only fit to be recycled into coke cans.

Anyway we must have been warry in 6 Sqn because we didn't sleep in the cabs.

Spend any time at Perham Down by any chance?

I was in 52 78 - 82

Oh well - dream is over..... :-(

I managed to persuade the wife only to be told by the bank yesterday that a cheque paid in had bounced (sold another car - it would have made up the balance from what I sold the Stalwart for), Now we have to try and get the money back from the people involved and I guess both Mk1's will be long sold by the time we can do this.

Unbelievable though - you never see Mk1's for dale and two come along together, both exactly what I would have been looking for - pre 1960 GS models with the backs adapted to live in.!!!

Feeling totally pee'd right now - first I have to sell the Stolly then have to lose out on a Mk1. :-( :-(

Neil, I believe the 6x6 one may be XFO 274 formerly with 'Lady Jane' on the front. Bash it in to Google and there are several photos of it at shows. Shame they fitted a non standard tilt to it in place of the correct pattern.

Out of interest and never having driven one, what was the issue with the brakes? I seem to remember they only had a single actuator each side on the bogie and the compressor was nailed on the back of the gearbox rather like a Matador.

I still remember starting one up at L W Vass many years ago and spending 15 mins trying to work out how to stop it:red:

From dim and distant memory the brakes worked like a cars in that you needed air pressure to apply them (air on) unlike a modern system where the air pressure is needed to release them (air off). So if you lost air pressure the only way of stopping was to crank on the handbrake and hope to god the road ahead was empty enough for it to slow you down. An uphill grade was a welcome sight, a down hill one was not!! Had I been lucky enough to have the dream come true an option for later would have been to consider whether or not the system could have been converted tp air off.

Turning one off - simples (in theory) - kill the power, hook the boot under the accelerator and lift then wait for the engine to die!

Ah well - maybe one day!!! :-( :-(

From dim and distant memory the brakes worked like a cars in that you needed air pressure to apply them (air on) unlike a modern system where the air pressure is needed to release them (air off).

 

Neil,

I think you have a bad understanding of modern air brake functioning. True you have to have air to release brakes to move, but you also need air pressure to apply the brakes. The brake chambers have a spring in them to apply when no air and also a normal operating chamber is combined in it as well.

I am happy to admit to that lack of knowledge Richard :-) :-) Although modern is not a word usually associated with Mk 1 Militants :-)

Thanks for the clarification. I was up at Gt Yeldham today and spoke to the guys who run the bus repair shop next door. I asked if anything could be done to improve the Militants braking systems - they had a few ideas but until or if - I can ever get hold of one it was not worth going into details.

Possibly know of one for sale

I am happy to admit to that lack of knowledge Richard :-) :-) Although modern is not a word usually associated with Mk 1 Militants :-)

Thanks for the clarification. I was up at Gt Yeldham today and spoke to the guys who run the bus repair shop next door. I asked if anything could be done to improve the Militants braking systems - they had a few ideas but until or if - I can ever get hold of one it was not worth going into details.

Sorry Neil, I used the term "modern" to indicate the fail safe air brake system that followed on after the likes of Mk1 Knockers. I spent a lot of time under and in these old trucks and the first one I drove was a Mk1 with Coles crane, about 25 tons all up. To update a Mk1 to spring brakes would entail a lot of work and expense as it is not just the fitting of spring brake chambers, it is all the extra plumbing and valves, etc. For the limited mileage likely to be undertaken, why try and up date it. If the original system is checked and made sure to be in first class working order there should be no doubts if driven accordingly.