Quiet, low profile life of a Sherman owner........

I just noticed that (according to your signature at least) that it's an M4A4. Is it running the Chrysler Multibank engine? If so, I'm going to need some pictures and some YouTube videos because those things are really cool.

 

Cheers,

Terry

Hi Terry, sorry its now fitted with a 9 cylinder radial engine. The original multibank motor was in a very bad way so my easiest option was to fit the radial. The motor was very easy to fit as there is loads of room, just had to make up engine mounts, alter propshaft height slightly and plumb in oil,fuel, exhaust and electrics ..

You need to get in contact with Adrian Barrel his M4A4 is running the correct mulibank motor.

Thanks jim.

Fellow forum members,

One main thing this thread has showed us all is the great passion that we all have for our Historical Military Vehicles....

This is one great hobby that we have..Continue to pass on your learned experiences to others.

The very best to all.

Joe in the USA

Hi Terry, sorry its now fitted with a 9 cylinder radial engine. The original multibank motor was in a very bad way so my easiest option was to fit the radial. The motor was very easy to fit as there is loads of room, just had to make up engine mounts, alter propshaft height slightly and plumb in oil,fuel, exhaust and electrics ..

 

You need to get in contact with Adrian Barrel his M4A4 is running the correct mulibank motor.

 

Thanks jim.

Jim,

Have you ever found out the history of it ?

Thanks,

Joe in USA

General Lee, I will try and dig out the photos and start a thread on the Sherman's restoration, but please note it is not in the same league as Adrian Barrels Sherman restoration.

Cheers Jim,

I look forward to your thread.

Jim

Please accept the statement that any messages posted are not directed against you in particular, but areintended to raise an issue and perhaps give some people a subject for consideration.

You should understand that anumber of armour owners (and also those who are full time employed by the classic vehicle game) are not unreasonably worried about armoured vehicles getting into the hands of ‘muppets’.

Either by being stolen, obtained from ebay, being bought cheaply via MOD disposals or hired.

Its only a matter of timebefore some idiot does something like:

1. driving their tank/armoured car into the grounds of parliament (happened in Canada).

2. Runs amok on the public highway (happened in California)

3. Deliberately aims to squash members of the public and royal family (Holland, but fortunately(sic) only in a car).

4. Attempts to drive an armoured vehicle painted to look like a police vehicle into the London protests with RIOT painted on the front.

As I understand it a number of European countries now have anti armour laws prohibiting private ownership. And the last thing I want to happen is that be imposed here.

Because I like you …love this hobby.

It may not require a serious incident to spark off some anti armour debate, just a single vindictive writer for the papers and enough evidence that ‘undesirables’ can get hold of them.

Or an high profile accident occurring where a child is killed because they stood too near when a vehicle manoeuvring/ slewing.

It has been stated that members of the public think that all our toys are really still owned by thearmy. I agree with that statement.

Thats why it comes as such a shock when I explain that this is fact my armoured car and will they kindly get off!

They are then surprised and state that it surely must be illegal for anyone to own ‘a tank’.

Imagine there horror / alarm if they found said ‘tank’ was being driven by ‘swompy’ andhis mates ..........................or by Abu Hamsa and chums!

I would like to say im a saint when driving my armour on the road, but of course I would be lying. Only last year I forgot to reattach my magnetic plates and had travelled a considerable distance before I remembered.

After having been quizzed afew times buy the boys in blue (they are perhaps more on the ball near London).

I have had to ensure that I have taken every reasonable care tooperate in a safe manner when on the public highway.

This means employing a competent commander in the turret, who is in direct communication by reliable intercom system. The use of a practiced system of voice commands. The fitment mirrors to eradicate as many blind spots as practicable. Fitment of brake lights. Use of daytime running lights. Painting the front edges of the vehicle white to aid conspicuousness.

The ends of the guns are also covered, after having had a long conversation with the Met police about interpretation of the law regarding firearms, deactivated or otherwise in public places and those permanently fitted to armoured vehicles.

(They say its an instantly arrestable offence if it is deemed to cause any public alarm).

Any insurance company in the event of an accident will be pleased that the above precautions have been taken. And as you are aware if you have not stated all facts to the insurers, such as the use for hire or reward, or can be seen to act undiligently, they willhave an opportunity to get out of any claim.

If I remember correctly iveseen your Sherman (Maiden Newton?) and thought it nicely restored.

During the Bristol protest its well-presented(very nice signwriting etc) and to my eyes looks totally unthreatening.

However ‘unthreatening’depends on the viewer.

For example, I once witnessed several elderly Jewish people get very upset at the sight of a picture of Spike Milligan in a German helmet. This was the advertising poster for a play about spikes life.

Ive similarly have a friend who became 'very aware' of his surrounding when he broke down outside a Mosque ineast London.

My part of GB is full of people who may have left war zones and have altogether different views onmilitary paraphernalia.

You only need oncomplaint to the police start a ball rolling……….They have a duty to follow itup afterall.

I hope that you continue to be ‘sloppy but safe’.

That’s all ive time for now,need to take my ‘large Cojones’ back in the garage where I have 4 gearboxes and two engine blocks waiting my urgent attention.

From another piss poor armour owner.

'Singe'

Ive similarly have a friend who became 'very aware' of his surrounding when he broke down outside a Mosque ineast London.

That would be Ian B. & myself.. Didn't go down with them to well.

For further discussion how to use or not use AMV:

( sorry only in german)

(but car was bought from town and MV too just to demonstrate what town could do to vehicles parked wrong.

Motorfahrer

Anybody remember the "Norbury Tank Man" and his Abbot etc?

He caused utter chaos in South London for many years with his AFV shenanigans which included:

• Disabling the Abbot in the middle of Brixton to block the road.
  
• Reversing into a mates car then saying "It could have been another yellow and pink tank"
  
• Sticking the gun through the doors of Streatham police station
  
• Decorating it with 6 foot plastic pigs in police uniforms and the slogan "Oi Rozzers, we're not going to take it any more"
  

He ran a fastner company on Acre Lane SW2 and commuted from Norbury in the Abbot.

Not a nice man.

Anybody remember the "Norbury Tank Man" and his Abbot etc?

He caused utter chaos in South London for many years with his AFV shenanigans which included:

 

• Disabling the Abbot in the middle of Brixton to block the road.

• Reversing into a mates car then saying "It could have been another yellow and pink tank"

• Sticking the gun through the doors of Streatham police station

• Decorating it with 6 foot plastic pigs in police uniforms and the slogan "Oi Rozzers, we're not going to take it any more"

 

He ran a fastner company on Acre Lane SW2 and commuted from Norbury in the Abbot.

 

Not a nice man.

I gotta say ..he sounds like a fella with a good sense of humour to me

Anybody remember the "Norbury Tank Man" and his Abbot etc?

He caused utter chaos in South London for many years with his AFV shenanigans which included.

Would this be the Chap??

http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Croydon-man-giant-fish-roof-wanted-whack-mayor-s/story-16432827-detail/story.html

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/214165.pub_manager_goes_nuts_over_parking_dispute/

I honestly thought all the idiots were here in the USA......:shocked:

we got monster raving loony party over here joeferret,

Sutch a nice bunch

and yes the screaming lord had his radio station on shivering sands army fort at sea, still playing the recordings.

http://www.omrlp.com/

and some music,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fknUlQ3mlwM

http://www.supertightstuff.com/05/22/pictures/tight-pictures/shivering-sands-army-fort/

to keep it military :-)

we got monster raving loony party over here joeferret,

Sutch a nice bunch

and yes the screaming lord had his radio station on shivering sands army fort at sea, still playing the recordings.

http://www.omrlp.com/

and some music,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fknUlQ3mlwM

 

http://www.supertightstuff.com/05/22/pictures/tight-pictures/shivering-sands-army-fort/

to keep it military :-)

Well i'm sorry for that....Can't help but think some of ours got loose and went over there...

Anybody remember the "Norbury Tank Man" and his Abbot etc?

He caused utter chaos in South London for many years with his AFV shenanigans which included:

 

• Disabling the Abbot in the middle of Brixton to block the road.

• Reversing into a mates car then saying "It could have been another yellow and pink tank"

• Sticking the gun through the doors of Streatham police station

• Decorating it with 6 foot plastic pigs in police uniforms and the slogan "Oi Rozzers, we're not going to take it any more"

 

He ran a fastner company on Acre Lane SW2 and commuted from Norbury in the Abbot.

 

Not a nice man.

Depends on your point of view. He had us, including the Police, in stiches in Whitehall! The look on a young womans face when an Abbot screeched to a halt behind her Astra will make me smile for ever.

Good on ya Jim I have a lasting memory of you bringing in your Sherman into the Welland show ground last summer very impressive :-D hope to see you there again this year and have a chat.

Would this be the Chap??

 

http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Croydon-man-giant-fish-roof-wanted-whack-mayor-s/story-16432827-detail/story.html

 

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/214165.pub_manager_goes_nuts_over_parking_dispute/

Yes, that's him, he was really quite unpleasant!

Just talking about things I actually saw:

• The Abbot overtook me going up Brixton Hill, I was doing about 30 and he had an old daimler hearse painted like Mr Blobby swinging off the back on a rigid bar with no driver. Definitely brown-trouser time for everyone else.

• As mentioned before, he stoved in the front of a mates car with his careless reversing then denied it ever happened.

• He would occaisionally tie another Abbot on the back on an A frame then give it some beans off the lights at St Leonards Church on the A23 (Steep uphill gradient) which resulted in a bit of tarmac removal.

• The local police were so sick of him that they wouldn't even contemplate taking any action if you complained, too much paperwork and no results.

• He portrayed himself as a local hero battling bureaucracy, everyone thought he was a tw@t

From that second story it looks like he still is.

His driver, who used to drink in the Tulse Hill Tavern, thought it was acceptable to scrape a few parked cars in narrow streets rouund Westminster because the cops wouldn't let him drive round Parliament Square.

That kind of behaviour does more damage to the 'hobby' then all the parking protests in the world.

Yes, that's him, he was really quite unpleasant!

Just talking about things I actually saw:

 

• The Abbot overtook me going up Brixton Hill, I was doing about 30 and he had an old daimler hearse painted like Mr Blobby swinging off the back on a rigid bar with no driver. Definitely brown-trouser time for everyone else.

• As mentioned before, he stoved in the front of a mates car with his careless reversing then denied it ever happened.

• He would occaisionally tie another Abbot on the back on an A frame then give it some beans off the lights at St Leonards Church on the A23 (Steep uphill gradient) which resulted in a bit of tarmac removal.

• The local police were so sick of him that they wouldn't even contemplate taking any action if you complained, too much paperwork and no results.

• He portrayed himself as a local hero battling bureaucracy, everyone thought he was a tw@t

 

From that second story it looks like he still is.

 

His driver, who used to drink in the Tulse Hill Tavern, thought it was acceptable to scrape a few parked cars in narrow streets rouund Westminster because the cops wouldn't let him drive round Parliament Square.

 

That kind of behaviour does more damage to the 'hobby' then all the parking protests in the world.

Anyone know if he still has the tank and if he still drives it like that ?

Hi Jim. It was great to see the sherman taking part in the ww2 battle at Caldicot castle during the Fortress Wales show. I'm sure I saw a video on youtube a few years back of you restoring the sherman from a rage wreck. Very inspiring.

I must confess that it was me that sold the Abbot to the man in Brixton, I was not aware what an idiot he was at the time.

Subsequently after a few years I bought it back, it was wrecked. At one time they was to burn a hole in the hull side to get at the starter motor but I managed to talk them out of it. They could not lock the turret so angle was welded to stop it revolving. A very grim sorry looking Abbot complete with the remains of a dummy policeman strapped to the muzzle brake

when it arrived at my yard.

I will throw my pfennings in or as we say my pennies worth in. I can see both cases equally. Those of us that have military vehicles would like to keep them. There are muppets out there that can do disservice to the community of law abiding vehicle owners. We had a vehicle owner last year in the north of the country cruise around the neighborhood on one of the holidays in his scout car and was shooting his propane .50 cal, which had numerous 911 calls and the local police showed up. The incident in Ca. was not a vehicle owner, the tank was stolen from the national guard armory and driven doing destruction on the highway. After that there was a big call to limit or make sure that individuals did not own heavy tanks/vehicles. It is the politicians and the ones that get their butts hurt when they see something that threatens them and they are the first to bring up anti-gun, anti-military, anti-armor etc. We fight with people all the time, asking them when was the last time you saw a tank drive down the road, park in front of a bank and blow the doors off (besides Kelly's Heroes). I for one own numerous pieces of armor, and I am not rich, I work my arse off to afford them and go without on other things. I for one would love to be able to get money to show my vehicles or help keep up with maintenance. When you have a vehicle with 115 gallons of fuel and gets 1-2mpg (filling the tank is over 1000 USD, and our fuel is cheaper), we just have to make sure that the ones that we are protesting against do not feel threatened or they will be the first ones to raise hell, which will go against any cause. Most of the time it isn't the vehicle owners that do something wrong, but the dumb arse spectator or someone that doesn't know better puts themselves in a situation and gets hurt. Remember the little boy that was hurt (killed) I think at War and Peace a few years ago, if I remember correctly, and that was from a Land Rover if I remember. I think all parties are correct, the biggest thing to remember is presentation and is it offensive? If I took a German tank to a neo-nazi rally then that would be bad...so I think it depends on the situation involved, where good judgment is used, is the deciding factor. So I just ran out of laptop battery so I am signing off...

We all have our own opinion on how historic machines should be used/abused but at the end on the day if you own it you can do whatever you like with it within the letter of the law. It is about what you personally care for; I couldn't careless if someone was abusing a FV432, even cutting a good one up....if it were a Churchill than I would be mortified! It just depends on your perspective.

Jim's Sherman probably does more for the hobby in the eyes of the public than any other, it's what got me back into the hobby back in 2008/9 when it was at the Welland show. I am sure Jim will admit that there is wartime armour on the scene that is in more original condition and closer to as issued condition than his M4A4 but those machine don't see the light of day as much as his!

Most of the time it isn't the vehicle owners that do something wrong, but the dumb arse spectator or someone that doesn't know better puts themselves in a situation and gets hurt. Remember the little boy that was hurt (killed) I think at War and Peace a few years ago, if I remember correctly, and that was from a Land Rover if I remember....

Are you referring to the war and peace arena incident 2008 when a 12 yr old boy was hurt in a Saladin armoured car.

Well done Jim!

Are you referring to the war and peace arena incident 2008 when a 12 yr old boy was hurt in a Saladin armoured car.

Could be the accident at Lanlivery steam fair a couple of years ago, when a young girl was tragically killed by a reversing Land Rover. There were witnesses who stated they saw the driver exit the vehicle and check behind him before moving but in the meantime the girl stopped to look at a fairground attraction and was sadly killed. The inquest attached no blame to the driver and put it down to being an unbelievably tragic accident.

Could be the accident at Lanlivery steam fair a couple of years ago, when a young girl was tragically killed by a reversing Land Rover. There were witnesses who stated they saw the driver exit the vehicle and check behind him before moving but in the meantime the girl stopped to look at a fairground attraction and was sadly killed. The inquest attached no blame to the driver and put it down to being an unbelievably tragic accident.

Yes that was the one, even with diligence and doing everything right accidents still happen.

People are still amazed when the see military vehicles, my LR 90 I get asked all the time if I am still in the military, or if I am wearing BD at an event, they ask what service are you in, when they see scout cars, they want to know if that is modern or not, so I do think we need more people to realize the sacrifice that others have given before them, that is one thing I like about the US, is that even though political whatever is always around, there are tons of communities that try to keep the history and sacrifices of this given remembered.

At least we don't have a reenactment of Washington being burned down hmmmm maybe that would be.....