question B60 Build. How to set the timing

Living in Far North Queensland, the availability of 1950's rolls royce parts arnt the easiest things to come by. Having said that though, I was incredibly fortunate to find a treasure trove of these parts a while back, stored in a good friends shed. These parts had been purchased at an auction back in the 70's and had been stored since this time. Last year I completed my Mk1/2 Ferret restoration, or at least I thought I did. I looked over the motor that I had and thinking that it would be alright put it in the Hull and hoped for the best. As these things turn out, the motor was pretty much shot and therefore I was in need of a new or reconditioned one. This led me to the option of attempting to build a new motor from my mates collection of parts.

These first three photos show the new crank case covered in the factory grease paper. An old engine is in the background, which I used for parts. After cracking open the timber box and lifting it out, I also found 6 boxes containing new pistons, rings and gudgeons. Lots of high pressure hosing and mineral turpentine eventually revealed the engine block.

The motor out of the grease after 60 odd years

To add to the new crank case was a new Crank. The photos show the care in which the factory took to ensure that the surfaces would remain free of rust. The crank was perfect. I also managed to find a few boxes of NOS bearing cups and installed those too.

I poached the oil pump from the old engine.

Opening another box, I found a new water pump, so tightly packed in grease and grease paper, I overlooked it amongst the parts, not realising what it was. Again, hit that with the high preasure hose and cleaned it up well. Unable to find a new head, I reconditioned the old head and reseated the valves. I was fortunate enought to locate a new head gasket though and torqued it all down. The valves would prove another interesting challenge.

As for the valves, I took out the old lifters from the old motor and they proved to be in good condition. Now that the crank, cam shaft and pistons. I forgot to add, that I also found a new cam shaft in a box, which proved to be in the same condition as the crank. With all that installed, I now proceeded to install the side valves. In theory you would think that it would be a simple matter of taking out the old lifters and transferring them to the new motor. It must also be understood that the new motor, already had the valve guides inserted, which was one less job I had to do. Taking the old lifters and inserting them into the new motor, I found that the lifters would not fit into the hole. The problem being that the valve guides in the new motor were about 4mm longer than the ones in the old motor. While this didnt make any significant difference, it did prove to be a significant pain, as I had to now remove the crank and cam, so that I could insert the lifter through the bottom of the engine instead of the top. Another day wasted. Who would have thought that the factory would have made such a minor change, but it would result in changing how the reassembly process occured. Would have been good to realise that before I had put the crank and cam in. Anyway, I reversed what I had alread done and inserted the lifters, which fitted perfect. The cam and crank went in again for the second time. In an effort to get the valve spring compressed I found a great side valve valve compressor on EBay. Original vintage valve compressor for ten dollars and ten dollars postage. Some times you can be lucky.

This is after installing the old oil tank and other bits an pieces. Now I need to set the timing. I have

According to the manual, it states:

Engine Timing:

(i) Set and lock the inlet valve rocker of No 1 Cylinder to .030"

(ii) Turn the camshaft in its normal direction of rotation until the inlet cam of No 1 cylinder commenced to open the valve.

(iii) Turn the crankshaft until the marking "IO" (inlet opens) on the flywheel is in line with the pointer fixed on the housing.

(iv) Adjust the camshaft gear on the hub to mate with the crankshaft pinion

(v) ON completion, adjust the inlet vavle rocker to .006"

That all sounds great, but I cant see the "IO" mark anywhere and where is the pointer fixed on the housing. I cant see anything there either?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. A photo of the IO mark and the fixed pointer would be be better than awesome.

Regards, Tim

Very interesting...Thank you for sharing the pictures...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh0thfB-_0M&feature=youtu.be

I just put this video together to show what I started with and where I am up too with this Ferret. Im now building a bigger shed, and once that is done, I will replace the motor with the one Ive just built, give it a respray and tidy it up, then I think I will be pretty close to finished. To give you some idea of what the internals were like, just picture nothing but rust.

Regards, Tim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh0thfB-_0M&feature=youtu.be

 

I just put this video together to show what I started with and where I am up too with this Ferret. Im now building a bigger shed, and once that is done, I will replace the motor with the one Ive just built, give it a respray and tidy it up, then I think I will be pretty close to finished. To give you some idea of what the internals were like, just picture nothing but rust.

 

Regards, Tim

You sure have been working...Hope someone on here can help you with the timing issue...

I am continuing to get this engine back together and put into the ferret. here are some photos of my progress thus far.

thats the old engine coming out. The replacement engine consists of a new crank case, crank, bearings, cam, pistons, rings, gudgeons, water pump, head gasket, seals. Reconditioned head, valves, carby, starter motor. I have followed all the instructions on the mechanical timing setting up, so hopefully it runs.

Excellent work.

Cheers,

Terry

And here is a little more progress. Just finished painting the engine and will put the gen and starter on and put it back in the hull, so I can start doing engine tests.

Beautiful job, hope to get mine finished this winter and be driving it in the spring.

CaptMax

Living in Tropical Far North Queensland, last night we were hit by a wild lighting and thunder storm. This was the back drop to the engine getting put back into the hull. Very dramatic. It was bloody frustrating trying to mesh the transmission drive shaft with the fluid coupling. lots of wriggling, shifting backwards and forwards, lifting, lowering, ect ect. Eventually I got it together this morning. Now to hook it all up and see what happens. Im taking a break for the next two weeks, but would like to have it all finished by April and drive it in the ANZAC day parade. A dead line helps with the motivation.

Living in Tropical Far North Queensland, last night we were hit by a wild lighting and thunder storm. This was the back drop to the engine getting put back into the hull. Very dramatic. It was bloody frustrating trying to mesh the transmission drive shaft with the fluid coupling. lots of wriggling, shifting backwards and forwards, lifting, lowering, ect ect. Eventually I got it together this morning. Now to hook it all up and see what happens. Im taking a break for the next two weeks, but would like to have it all finished by April and drive it in the ANZAC day parade. A dead line helps with the motivation.

I am back in civilization now with a computer Tim and am amazed at your work...I was following your posts earlier in the year....Keep up the great posts....You are a real inspiration....We have a real great bunch of people here on this forum from all over the world...

Joe in USA

OK, after putting the engine in, I greased it up, put oil in it and started it up. It kicked over twice, so it appears that I have set the timing correct. The starter motor solenoid isnt playing the game, so I will pull that out tomorrow. But, I am totally ecstatic that it is running. I have consumed a considerable quantity of champagne in tribute to my success. Once I have sorted the starter motor, I will post a video. hoorah

Congrats Tim, I am looking forward to your video. :beer:

CaptMax

Outstanding Tim..Congrats......Make the video long..I am really looking forward to it..

You sure have been working...Hope someone on here can help you with the timing issue...

Outstanding work - you are a lucky man to have a friend with all those parts in his shed!!

Outstanding work - you are a lucky man to have a friend with all those parts in his shed!!

Timbo you sent this message to me the wrong person indeed...I don't have a friend with Ferret parts in his shed.Wish I did...LOL...I don't deserve any credit for anything...I am learning from all the guys here..I am in the USA.....

OZITIM is doing all the work on his Ferret..He is in some rural area in Australia putting his Ferret together...

Timbo you sent this message to me the wrong person indeed...I don't have a friend with Ferret parts in his shed.Wish I did...LOL...I don't deserve any credit for anything...I am learning from all the guys here..I am in the USA.....

OZITIM is doing all the work on his Ferret..He is in some rural area in Australia putting his Ferret together...

Hi Joe

The praise was indeed meant for Tim - not sure why I quoted you but it's been a long week!

Tim

I will! I started it up on the weekend, but I dont have an oil filter. I am awaiting for one to arrive from Banister. Should be here next week. The great thing though, was that oil gushed out of the oil hose at a great rate of knots, which gave me a fairly good indication of the fact that I had oil pressure. Usually I would curse the fact that I had covered my clean engine bay with oil, but the alternative of having no oil pressure would have been considerably worse. So far so good. Timing is correct, oil pressure is good. What could possibly go wrong! I will put the radiator in this weekend, put all the tin back around the transmission and await the oil filter. Then I shall compile a movie masterpiece. I will set the ignition timing on the video. Thanks for your outstanding encouragement.

Timbo you sent this message to me the wrong person indeed...I don't have a friend with Ferret parts in his shed.Wish I did...LOL...I don't deserve any credit for anything...I am learning from all the guys here..I am in the USA.....

OZITIM is doing all the work on his Ferret..He is in some rural area in Australia putting his Ferret together...

Mr Friend 'Sid Beck' with the Ferret parts, passed away 12 months ago. As his health became more critical he encouraged me more and more to get my Ferret going. He called me one day and said that I could help myself to his parts. That I could take enough to get my vehicle going. I promised him that I would do it myself. I started the project two years ago from a 6 foot by 6 foot shed. During the course of the build, the shed grew into a 20 foot by 20 foot shed and my knowledge of B60 Rolls Royce engines became fairly extensive. I guess it proves that you dont need to be a mechanical engineer to own a derelict armoured vehicle and breathe life back into it. I will drive my Ferret on ANZAC day in April and I can now say I built the vehicle, every nut and bolt. Australia isnt the easiest place to own an old Brit piece of armour, but its amasing what a bench vice, file and drill can achieve. A ball pein hammer is also fairly useful. While I was lucky to get a bunch of parts off Sids, dont be fooled to think that building a Ferret is as simple as bolting parts together like a jig saw puzzle. Many of the parts I had to manufacture myself. Long nights spent with a file, oxy and hammer. But each step eventually adds up and you eventually get to the day where you apply pressure to the start switch and you are rewarded with the pounding sound of 6 pistons firing to life. The smell of burnt fuel in your nostrils cants be sweeter with the first ignition of the engine. Its the best feeling.

Many Regards, Tim