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Thread: A Riddle............................................

  1. #21
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Quote Originally Posted by morris c8 fat View Post
    Phesant 17pdr on 25pdr trail till new ones were ready just a thought

    A paragraph taken from the 1945 print "G & J.WEIR Ltd 1939-1945 The War Years "

    "1942,It was in this year also that we made a notable contribution to an immediate need.It became known the German "Tiger" tank was unusually heavily armoured,and to provide against this it was decided to design an anti-tank weapon heavier than any yet in service with the British army.This was the famous 17-pounder gun.A number of these had already been produced in the summer of 1942,but carriages were unfortunately not yet available to mount them.With the North African campaign reaching its climax,it was clearly of the greatest value that this splendid new weapon should be bought quickly into operation against the enemy,and our chief Engineer suggested mounting the gun on a 25- pounder carriage as a stop-gap until the proper carriage was available.From War Office approval to the completely successful trial of the first "Hybrid"(as the combination was called ) only ten days elapsed, thereafter we produced 150 of these during the Autumn of 1942,having the pleasure of showing one of these unique weapons to Mrs Roosevelt during her visit in November. The "Hybrid" proved a tactical success, taking part in the later phases of the North African campaign and during the subsequent battles in Sicily and Italy."

    Weirs were responsible for all 150 gun conversions to mount the 17 pdr ordnance to the 25 pdr carriage known then as the " Hybrid" and later on to the legendary "17 pdr Pheasant".


    Rob.....................rnixartillery.
    Last edited by rnixartillery; 15-02-2012 at 09:03.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    And more !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0067.jpg  


  4. #23
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Not much chance you finding one of them, then?

    I suppose given the bits you could replicate what Weirs did, if you had the info. After all, if a few Scots can do it in ten days .....

    Being a non-artillery type, how come something 8lbs lighter (17 versus 25 ) was superior as an anti-tank weapon - barrel length?
    Last edited by Gordon_M; 15-02-2012 at 09:07.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    How intriguing. Not only did the Australians redesign the gun mount and recoil for the 25 pounder so they could squash it into their cruiser tank turret, they performed the same operation on the 17 pounder as well. Do we have a parallel universe here? Were Weir's involved?

    On another issue. Do you happen to know whether there is a site I can download the Service handbook of the 9.2-inch Howitzer...

  6. #25
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Just to throw another piece of information into the pot, at the time Eskmeals trials and proof rang facility in Cumbria which belonged to Vickers Armstrong and assisted by the ministry of supply was to be the proof range for trials on the 17 pdr "Hybrid" along with many more of Weirs production.


    Rob........................rnixartillery

  7. #26

    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_M View Post

    Being a non-artillery type, how come something 8lbs lighter (17 versus 25 ) was superior as an anti-tank weapon - barrel length?
    Ah, there are several things to consider here:

    1) the 25 pounder is a light howitzer design, with a short barrel for indirect fire (i.e: lobbing shells over obstacles). It is close enough to 88 mm bore but is a _completely_ different kettle of fish to the German 88mm which was designed for direct-fire (initially as an anti-aircraft gun, I believe).

    2) the 25 pounder barrel length is fairly short, consequently the muzzle velocity is relatively low (1750 fps maximum).

    3) the 17 pounder is a direct fire weapon with a long barrel for maximum velocity - up to 3,950 fps.

    At more than double the muzzle velocity (and a 76mm projectile with correspondingly less drag), the anti-armour effect was correspondingly very much greater.

    Chris.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Quote Originally Posted by rnixartillery View Post
    Just to throw another piece of information into the pot, at the time Eskmeals trials and proof rang facility in Cumbria which belonged to Vickers Armstrong and assisted by the ministry of supply was to be the proof range for trials on the 17 pdr "Hybrid" along with many more of Weirs production.
    A 17-pdr Pheasant, that's exciting! Did you find an original one or are you reconstructing one from parts?

    Googled a few pics for the forum members who have never seen one.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #28
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    OK,time to get down to business ! in 2009 a friend of mine purchased an unrestored 25 pdr carriage,well infact it was everything minus the barrel,ring and recuperator but the cradle was still in place but empty.
    The carriage had been stood for a very long time and was covered in layers of flaking paint ,although it still had its makers plates still fitted they were not legible due to the thick paint.
    When the carriage was recovered and the plates cleaned this is what was found.



    Rob......................rnixartillery.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0083.jpg  

    DSCF0082.jpg  


  10. #29
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    So you, or your friend, need a 17 pr tube and ring eh?
    Tanks are mighty fine things
    1939 Caterpillar D4
    1944 M5 High speed tractor
    1953 M75 APC
    1942 M4A4 Sherman
    1978 Can-Am Bombardier
    1943 Matchless G3/L

  11. #30
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    Default Re: A Riddle............................................

    Adrian,

    Have you heard something through the grape vine !

    Rob....................rnixartillery.

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