Chris Suslowicz Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Being a non-artillery type, how come something 8lbs lighter (17 versus 25 ) was superior as an anti-tank weapon - barrel length? Ah, there are several things to consider here: 1) the 25 pounder is a light howitzer design, with a short barrel for indirect fire (i.e: lobbing shells over obstacles). It is close enough to 88 mm bore but is a _completely_ different kettle of fish to the German 88mm which was designed for direct-fire (initially as an anti-aircraft gun, I believe). 2) the 25 pounder barrel length is fairly short, consequently the muzzle velocity is relatively low (1750 fps maximum). 3) the 17 pounder is a direct fire weapon with a long barrel for maximum velocity - up to 3,950 fps. At more than double the muzzle velocity (and a 76mm projectile with correspondingly less drag), the anti-armour effect was correspondingly very much greater. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just to throw another piece of information into the pot, at the time Eskmeals trials and proof rang facility in Cumbria which belonged to Vickers Armstrong and assisted by the ministry of supply was to be the proof range for trials on the 17 pdr "Hybrid" along with many more of Weirs production. A 17-pdr Pheasant, that's exciting! Did you find an original one or are you reconstructing one from parts? Googled a few pics for the forum members who have never seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 OK,time to get down to business ! in 2009 a friend of mine purchased an unrestored 25 pdr carriage,well infact it was everything minus the barrel,ring and recuperator but the cradle was still in place but empty. The carriage had been stood for a very long time and was covered in layers of flaking paint ,although it still had its makers plates still fitted they were not legible due to the thick paint. When the carriage was recovered and the plates cleaned this is what was found. Rob......................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So you, or your friend, need a 17 pr tube and ring eh? :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Adrian, Have you heard something through the grape vine ! Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Tracing the Reg no from the plate back ,the carriage was built around September/October 1942 which corresponds with the months that the "Hybrid" conversions were assembled, What you need to remember is that standard built 25 pdr carriages were used so Weir's used 150 from stock and assembled the 17 pdr ordnance to complete the weapon,there was no designated "Hybrid" carriage plate so the existing 25 pdr plates were 'overstamped' with 17 pr mk 2. I also know that this particular carriage "spent time " at Eskmeals possibly when it was proofed. One more thing I have found out is that when the designated 17 pdr carriages were finaly manufactured in early 1943 over 100 of the "Hybrid" conversions were dismantled and the 17 pdr Ordnance placed onto their correct carriages.less than 50 "Hybrids" went on to fight in Sicily and then Italy. :cool2: Rob......................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 All new to me Rob, thanks for posting the photos Hanno, makes a big difference to see what it looked like. One of one hundred and fifty, now that Is a rare piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 And more ! Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 All new to me Rob, thanks for posting the photos Hanno, makes a big difference to see what it looked like. One of one hundred and fifty, now that Is a rare piece. There are No known surviving Pheasants ....................................until now ! :-D Rob............................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) So you, or your friend, need a 17 pr tube and ring eh? :cool2: Because my mate knows what an obsessive Artillery collectormaniac Nerd I am he has given me the complete carriage as long as promise to complete what I set out to do ! With two years of research behind me its know down to the restoration of Hybrid No2991. Rob....................rnixartillery Edited February 17, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 the carriage was built around September/October 1942 which corresponds with the months that the "Hybrid" conversions were assembled, Hang on a minute. These things were built around September 1942 and were called 'Pheasants?' Want to bet the order was placed, or due for delivery, on 12th August ? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Hang on a minute. These things were built around September 1942 and were called 'Pheasants?' Want to bet the order was placed, or due for delivery, on 12th August ? :-D Your too quick for me Gordon..........................:rotfl: ! The Glorious 12 th. Rob..........................rnixartillery. Edited February 17, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You are all Quite right with your comments but heading down the wrong pipeline. 25 pounder,could you post the date and reg no stamped on the carriage plate on your Gun,it may start with the letters CA. Gordon,you are correct.Weirs did not produce the Ordnance but manufactured carriages,recuperators and other componants. Rob..............................rnixartillery. the date on the carriage plate says 1940 reg n° says 2485 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 some clearer shots of the id plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hey, thanks for the pics 25 pounder,does your gun have a muzzle brake fitted ? and a riveted cradle ? You will notice on your plate that it has 'Weir' written in full, these plates were altered in 1941 to just the initials as not to give away the companies full name and location to prevent from German Bombing ! Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Rob I saw a car today with the reg number 6 PDR thought that it could have been you ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Rob I saw a car today with the reg number 6 PDR thought that it could have been you ! :-D Andy , That would do me fine,there is a plate up for sale at the moment................B16 GUN............ 12k Though.:wow: Maybe when my lottery numbers come in ! Rob.....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hey, thanks for the pics 25 pounder,does your gun have a muzzle brake fitted ? and a riveted cradle ? You will notice on your plate that it has 'Weir' written in full, these plates were altered in 1941 to just the initials as not to give away the companies full name and location to prevent from German Bombing ! Rob..................rnixartillery. Hi Rob , affirmative for the muzzle brake , but no riveted cradle , all of the recuperators have been machined in one solid piece of cast steel.Mike (Peacock -The Garison) told me this is a rare type of cradle , as most of what we've seen through the years are riveted ones. I think the date on the gun barrel says 1942, will check that out tomorrow. Thanks so far for this (valuable) information.:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Excellent discovery, as a piece of kit that must have caused some consternation, aproaching from head on you would quite likely presume you were up against a standard 25PDR. Amost unwelcome surprise would await.Please keep us updated, the collection of equipments you have is excellent and a real credit to you. Would you happen to have a 2pdr A/T ? If so love to see posts of it or even PM.Regards Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Excellent discovery, as a piece of kit that must have caused some consternation, aproaching from head on you would quite likely presume you were up against a standard 25PDR. Amost unwelcome surprise would await.Please keep us updated, the collection of equipments you have is excellent and a real credit to you. Would you happen to have a 2pdr A/T ? If so love to see posts of it or even PM.Regards Tim Tim Unfortunately I dont have a 2 pdr in my collection yet ! I have collected quite a few bits up just in anticipation though. A rare breed on the land carriage but they are out there ! Thank you for the comment about my collection,its only taken me 20 years and still searching.................................. Rob......................rnixartillery. Edited February 21, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Just to keep things on the boil ,17 pounder ordnance has been located and purchased for this project.Once back at base I will upload some pictures. The pheasant project has all necessary componants obtained so I will hopefuly start on the restoration at Easter with the possibility of enough parts to build a second 17 pdr Anti-tank gun. Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Attached are pictures of the 17 pdr I have just acquired which will provide the 17 pdr elements required for this restoration. Some people may recognize this as it has spent a few years outside the Isle of Wight Military museum. Although an ex-range target and by most people "beyond it" :wow: it does have the essentials to complete the Pheasant. Rob..................rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 nice , a 17 Pr is on my "wanted" list as well , tough , haven't seen any for sale over here , and it's not getting any better , Belgian weapons law is changing once again , more kit will be forbidden for collectors:embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Nice to see it's still got 'the Block' in situ Rob! Normally removed, as you know from most ordanance!......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Nice to see it's still got 'the Block' in situ Rob! Normally removed, as you know from most ordanance!......... Your right there Mike,its quite odd how the gun must have been complete when it was situated on the range.It has its Block,striker and even the run back stop in place. I think it will be a bugger to split,plenty of heat and a rather large hammer ! Rob......................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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