RAF Foulweather Jacket & Trousers

Took a punt recently on some old RAF foul weather gear. When it turned up I was pleased to find it was in new, unissued condition. The two jackets are by the same manufacturer but are different colours and feel like different materials. Same NSN but different descriptions. The jackets still have the red manufacturing quality control tags.

very nice

Mark

A good find & excellent condition. I had a set but they went all hard & cracky, so had to throw them out in the end.

Nice set ! These foul-weather jackets first appeared during the 1970s and were originally a RAF item intended for ground crews (no buttons to cause FOD if they fell off)......they are double-skinned and bloody good, so good in fact that the Army started issue of them in places such as Ireland, etc.......

First issues were made in a lighter-weight nylon than later versions, having a noticeable "sheen" to the nylon......the velcro was often bottle-green rather than olive, and labels were marked "RAF" on the designation.....this later changing to "OD" for both RAF and Army issues......later versions are made in a far heavier nylon with a lighter nylon lining, originally used for the outer too.....

Early issues have a numbered size range from (I think) Size 1 to 3, later issues going "metric"..........

A fantastic suit, which kept me and my colleagues warm, windproof and dry.......issues only stopping during the early-mid 90s when the DPM goretex stuff came in (the RAF having their own version of the DPM goretex smock with lower velcro-fastened pockets instead of the buttoned chest pockets of the Army version of the era)....:-D

By the way, "BIL" stands for "Belstaff International Ltd"........"RFD" is for "RFD Beaufort Ltd" (makers of aircrew and survival clothing & kit)......other manufacturers of these suits included "Vacuum Reflex" and "Jeltek"..........

By the way, "BIL" stands for "Belstaff International Ltd"........"RFD" is for "RFD Beaufort Ltd" (makers of aircrew and survival clothing & kit)......other manufacturers of these suits included "Vacuum Reflex" and "Jeltek"..........

Thanks Steve - that was my next question. I have a few items made by B.I.L. and always wondered who the company was.

Interesting that the items with the RAF designation have no Domestic Management Code preceding the NSN. I would have expected to see 22G.

However once it loses the RAF designation it acquires the Army DMC of CH.

Searching 8415-99-135-7765 shows that is was deleted because of duplication with 8415-99-978-4523. Whether they were actually quite the same is another matter.

Where did you get them from and are there any more?

Very Ally back in the day but too noisy for anything other than stag. I preferred the Barbour Durham myself.

 

But a nice find all the same ! :-)

 

Dave

They were a bit noisy, but not quite as bad as the first issue green and DPM nylon NI waterproofs (the ones with the zip and stud-fastened front, dubbed the "suit, crisp-packet")....

These RAF versions were also not as sweaty to wear as the other versions......they had, amongst other things, mesh vents underneath the arms........personally, I avoided excessive physical activity as much as possible when wearing them, a tradition I've managed to maintain to the present !...:-\

If I recall these were much better than the RAF blue ones.

If I recall these were much better than the RAF blue ones.

Almost no comparison Paul !

The blue nylon RAF waterproof jacket (MK2A) often dubbed the "Jeltek" after the primary manufacturer (Jeltek Weatherguard) was standard issue to RAF Police, Air Cadets and other odd individuals who occasionally acquired them ("odd" in many instances being a tad appropriate)......it had a stud-fastened cold-weather lining that was basically a thin foam waistcoat that was a pain to fit or remove and anything but warm, plus a detachable hood that fortunately assisted greatly in loss at the first opportunity..........the item was eventually replaced in the 1990s by a much improved garment in blue-grey Goretex....

Mind you, on the plus side being issued with the above garment at least meant that you had an alternative to the RAF airmens raincoat.....an abominable shapeless affair favoured by flashers and dirty old men and never to be worn in a high wind or when trying to chat up an attractive female.....later replaced by a much improved double-breasted raincoat in "trench" style similar to the officers model.....

The nearest equivalent to the green RAF foul weather suit was the Royal Navy MK3 deck jacket and trousers.....largely made in blue nylon but an olive green (rather rare nowadays) version was also made for Marines.....both garments made with a peaked hood fitted with adjuster straps & buckles plus inner padded "earmuffs".......early issues had a button weatherflap over the zip but later versions went over to velcro....

Interesting that the items with the RAF designation have no Domestic Management Code preceding the NSN. I would have expected to see 22G.

 

However once it loses the RAF designation it acquires the Army DMC of CH.

 

Searching 8415-99-135-7765 shows that is was deleted because of duplication with 8415-99-978-4523. Whether they were actually quite the same is another matter.

Again - resurrecting old threads so apologies!

Clive - do you have a date as to whne the deletion occured?

Thanks

I've actually found the trousers. They were issued to father-in-law (RAF) circa 1980. Sadly the label has been ripped out, but there is a pen mark 22G 1357764 which of course translates to 22G/8415-99-135-7764

Looking in FAP1086 for 1988 & 1992 it mentions all the sizes of course. Yours is size No.2 22G/8415-99-135-7765. It is to Pattern No.35R/1671 and supercedes 22G/12222129/13. Now whether that was a different item or the supercession was just NATO codification I don't know.

Moving to Chilwell stock in 1989 it is listed as CH/8415-99-135-7765 but no sign of 8415-99-978-423.

Then in 1989 CH/8415-99-978-423 is listed as superceding 8415-99-135-7765.

So somewhere between 1989 to 1999.

Thanks Clive. I have examples of clothing from both NSN sets and they seem identical to me, hence the question. It appears that one simply replaced the other whilst the item specs were essentially unchanged.

I have to ask, what is the date on your 8415-99-978-423?

No dates. Jacket is NSN 8415 99 978 4520 and trousers NSN 8415 99 978 4524, which are different from the NSNs you quote but same description on items as the earlier 135 776? items.

Couple of examples of trousers label:

Just dug out a pair of my trs and for the life of me cannot get a decent pic of the label---

Appears to be

TROUSERS FOULWEATHER

OLIVE DRAB

8405??????????

SIZE 2

Richard - the NSN is 8405 99 135 7765 old size 2. These are the pre-cursors to the trousers in my post and superceeded them in NSN terms. I have the matching jacket to your trousers.....somewhere!

Nice to see some variant manufacturers of these garments.......

As mentioned in my earlier post, very early production for the RAF and in the old size range, were made throughout in a much lighter nylon that was the same as later used for the lining on the more common heavy versions........these early examples are also rather "shiny" in appearance and have velcro in bottle green rather than olive.......I have a nearly new example of the early pattern somewhere....

Although issued to the Army, it seems that this wasn't universal by any means, most troops retaining the various thin nylon waterproofs in (initially) green, then DPM, followed by the heavier PVC DPM version..........the early army version in green, specifically introduced for NI, is very rare today (I have one, but it's fairly well worn).......the main reason would appear to have been cost, the double-lined RAF version being far more expensive (and effective) than the cheaper crisp packet suits.......

Steve - would be good to see a few photos of the specific NI version you mention, when you get the chance.

Is it significantly different from the examples in this thread?

Steve - would be good to see a few photos of the specific NI version you mention, when you get the chance.

 

Is it significantly different from the examples in this thread?

Same for me.

Have a couple of jackets somewhere and another pair of trs but cannot find the damn things:-D

Been following with intrest, do have a few foul weather garments, but main question is, are 'Air crew' basicaly the same with just a different label. Think quite old. (Trousers)

Steve - would be good to see a few photos of the specific NI version you mention, when you get the chance.

 

Is it significantly different from the examples in this thread?

Indeed Jason.....I am referring to the nylon single shell "crisp packet" Army nylon waterproofs........zip and stud-fastened front and very basic trousers.......these first appeared during the mid-70s in green and were intended for troops padding the streets in the commonly wet conditions encountered in NI......the green was considered less provocative, but also as DPM print on nylon was at that stage still under development........but by the late 70s the DPM version appeared, almost identical but with a few minor modifications.....these remained in service for the Falklands era up to around 1984 when the heavier PVC (sweaty) version appeared that was supposed to be more robust.....a black-lined fuel-resistant version of the latter suit was also produced...........these lasted until DPM goretex made an appearance........