Need help to ID a gun carriage and also a limber

Below are some photos of the remains of an old gun carriage residing at the local scrapyard. Can anyone ID what it is? The trails seem to have quick removal pins, and the trails themselves would appear to split in half. As well, the hubs would appear to attach to the axle stubs. Is this a pack version of the 6 pdr? There is a carriage sled from a 25 pdr in some of these photos....it is unrelated to this carriage so disregard it.

The real reason I had gone to the yard was to dig out this older artifact. I had hoped it was going to be the carriage of an older cannon, but instead it would appear to be the remnants of a limber. It had sunk into the ground, and most of the wood had decomposed. In the soil underneath it I did find a few cast brackets and a couple of footman loops. On the hitch is R.C.D. which I will guess is for the Royal Carriage Department and a date of 1896. There is also a registration number in that location. Winter is setting in today so any further sifting in the soil will have to wait until the spring. I am glad I recovered this, as the metal was starting to rust through in spots.

As I dug out the limber, I found what I thought was a cast bracket underneath it.

Unfortunately, it was not related to the limber but was just a breech assembly for a Flakvierling 38 2cm quad Flak Gun. The carriage and one other breech assembly of the Flakvierling resides a couple of dozen yards away from this spot.

So can anyone ID the carriage and have any ideas of the limber? I can supply more detailed photos of some of the limber pieces if needed.

Definitely not 6 pdr Rob although the angle of the trail is similar,could it be some sort of prototype ?

No idea with the limber.

Rob..................rnixartillery.

I have sent you a private message about the limber.

R/

Ralph

I have sent you a private message about the limber.

 

R/

 

Ralph

Ralph,

I actually though about you when I saw the limber pics,do you think its German ! :cool2:

Rob...................rnixartillery.

Hmmm, I really thought the gun would be an easy one.

I was PM'd for better photos of the limber so here they are. My photos of it upside down and in the mud and grass did not aid in it's identification.

This next photo is of the left side of the tow hitch with the makers markings and the crowfoot.

Ralph,

 

I actually though about you when I saw the limber pics,do you think its German ! :cool2:

 

 

Rob...................rnixartillery.

Rob,

Well, I hoped that it was the under-fame for my German 10,5cm Limber at first but it is quite different in several respects. The broad arrow mark is also a good indicator its British not German.

So I'm still looking for the parts to complete the German WW1 Era 10,5cm lFH or 7,7cm lFK 96 Limber.

R/

Ralph

Rob it has a similarity to this:

Limber BL 12Pr 6cwt (Mark II) L

That looks very similar to it.

I went to the local artillery museum to get some measurements for my 105 howitzer, and asked what they had for limbers. He took me to the far end of the building, and sure enough, there was the sister limber to this one. Even the same date on the towing hook. I recognized all of the fittings I found in the ground as having come off the box, but realize there will me a few more in there yet.

Because of how tight the limber was parked I was only able to get some closeup photos.

Very close Clive although limbers of that era were constructed very similar.I bet the limber has a very interesting History Rob,can you trace where it came from previouse to the scrap yard ?

Rob...............rnixartillery.

Yes Rob, the limber came from the same museum I visited. The owner of the salvage yard used to have the scrap contract for the base back in the 60s through to around the early 90s. Sometime in the 70s, an officer at the museum wanted the "junk pile" cleaned up. There was a nice little pile of pieces that came out of that mess including this limber, the remains of 17 pdr, some 25 pdr bits, an honest John rocket launcher, a 6 pdr carriage, a couple of German guns, etc. I think Clive at the museum mentioned they had two of the guns and only one limber, so it appears I likely have the other one.

When I found the German 20mm receiver buried under the carriage, I asked Al why he would have put it there. He said it was likely because he was just dumping the stuff off so he could run out for another load.

If you want some more close-up of the Limber I can get some as we have one in our Museum.

The limber may well have started it's life in Erith Kent. Just up the road from Woolwich. The carriages were made on a seperate site. If so the records may have been retained at Firepower.