DPM Para Smock DPM Sniper Smock Green Windproof Smock

It is interesting to note that the late-pattern Denison smock was commercially produced during the late-1970's by J & S Franklin LTD for some obscure African nation.....it is almost a dead copy of the British MoD version but with commercial labels..........they occasionally turn up for sale on Fleabay.......rumour has it that they were worn by the "enemy" in the film "The Wild Geese".....I think Survival Aids also made a fairly good copy too during the 1980's...??

The Simbas? I think they were 72 'Cut' Denisons? I know some had Pre-59 pattern smocks on aswell.

I know Silvermans do a crap copy aswell now.

The Simbas? I think they were 72 'Cut' Denisons? I know some had Pre-59 pattern smocks on aswell.

 

I know Silvermans do a crap copy aswell now.

Crap price too !!!! Some very similar repro 59 pattern denisons were still being made into the 1990's.....wrong press fasteners, cuffs, collar lining and zips amongst other things.......worse feature was the cammo pattern.....although the colour was okay for a late model smock, the cammo pattern just wasn't quite right (too "busy").......some of these still turn up on Ebay for sale as originals but the dead giveaway is always the cammo pattern....

Crap price too !!!! Some very similar repro 59 pattern denisons were still being made into the 1990's.....wrong press fasteners, cuffs, collar lining and zips amongst other things.......worse feature was the cammo pattern.....although the colour was okay for a late model smock, the cammo pattern just wasn't quite right (too "busy").......some of these still turn up on Ebay for sale as originals but the dead giveaway is always the cammo pattern....

£150 for a Repro 59 Patt? I can get an original one for that, and its too Yellow and Green, the 72 Style late model smock was a creamy colour with dullish green not extravagent green. I managed to pick up a mint '66 dated 59 Pattern, it looks like a Brush Stroke pattern, I got it for £100, a lot cheaper than Silvermans.

Smock windproof 1963 pattern how much would they cost these days?

Also when did the SBS stop using the WWII windproof?

Smock windproof 1963 pattern how much would they cost these days?

Also when did the SBS stop using the WWII windproof?

I'll leave the second question to someone more knowledgeable than me. As for the first - anything between £150 - £200 for a decent size in decent condition.

Smock windproof 1963 pattern how much would they cost these days?

Also when did the SBS stop using the WWII windproof?

We recently discovered via Forum members that the '63 pattern windproof smock and trousers were originally produced in olive drab windproof gaberdine (the '63 designation referring to the official full-zip front to the smock, introduced circa 1964-65), followed by the DPM model in heavyweight cotton-sateen from 1970 to around 1975........sizes ran from 1 to 9 and both suits carried the same NATO stock numbers (the DPM replacing the green around 1970).......both suits are rather rare and valuable today, especially the green version (not to be confused with the wartime green-drab pullover smock made from green denim fabric).....condition and size will also affect the value....but you are looking at a minimum for at least £80 + for a smock alone nowadays........

The WW2 style windproof in the older "Denison" camouflage was never officially made in the full-zip style, although photos prove that many wartime and 50's dated examples were converted (in some cases officially) to the full-zip style.......It was officially replaced when the green 1963 pattern suit appeared in the mid-1960s, although again as photos prove the older cammo style remained in service with the SAS, SBS and RM until at least the late-1970's when the DPM 63 pattern suit took over (itself being replaced from 1975 onwards by the later DPM SAS windproofs but reverting to gaberdine fabric.....)............:-)

Thanks very much for that.

When worn I was surprised as to how basic the DPM (WWII COPY) was. Pockets small and with no draw cord at the bottom. Only the waist and hood. And the cuffs whats that about? Although having said that would quite like to get my hands on one.

The half zip makes sence I have seen a very heavy duty smock oiled that I can only assume was used by swim canoest.Map pocket on the chest under the zip. not sure how the map pocket fasterned. Looked every inch the part of being sea going. Which leads me to ask... Whilst in the role of swim canoest were life jackets worn? Some sort of compromise may have been made to facititate the use of the SF "waist coat" ammo carrier if at all worn by the SBS.

Did they experiment with smocks having a splash deck together with the quarter length zip?

The Artic Smock was (I thought) the better artical as it came down over your bum and with a few double seams created places to stow the button compass and escape map. Correct me if I am wrong but the Regt smock (1963 & 1975) did not have an inside chest pocket. Apart from the iconic look the regt smocks did not have much going for them. A good old First issue DPM combat jacket could take some stick plus it had the pockets in the rear for the odd bit of kit.

The SAS-issue gaberdine smock in DPM was introduced around 1975, followed a year or two later by the similar arctic model. Both smocks were in fact identical in cut and design (not the trousers though) and included one inside chest pocket (on the left) plus the large poachers pocket at the inner-rear, although the initial issues of the arctic version had the additional wired snow/wind flap fitted onto the hoods plus rank slides at front and rear.....

I have seen some photos from the 1950s showing SBS canoeists wearing a hooded smock that appears to have a different pocket arrangement and a peculiar buttoned neck fastening, similar in style/design to 1960s RN deck clothing.......not sure about material or colour, but there exists the possibility of a proofed (cammo ?) smock for such a role.......a few years ago now SASS in Lancaster made a repro of such a smock based upon an alleged "SBS" example..........but it is also possible that SBS canoeists used RN or RAF foul weather clothing from the 1950s and 60s..?? Anyone know any more ? The book "British Special Forces 1945 to the Present" by James G Shortt in the Uniforms Illustrated series by Arms & Armour publications shows this SBS smock being worn in a canoe in December 1959 (photo 14 page 13) alongside other personnel wearing the older wartime cammo windproof.....

Same book also shows DPM 63 pattern windproofs being worn (photo 39 page 26, photo 97 page 57, and photos 98 to 101 page 58).......and the even rarer OLIVE GREEN 63 pattern windproof smock being worn (photo 82 page 50)...!!!!!

Thanks once again for the insight and also into the mystery inside pocket. SF kit seems always to be work in progress.

Although why this is said to be worth only £80 when WW2 Denisons and windies are many times that much I don't get as the green one is the rarest of the rare ........

 

 

The prices Denisons are fetching these days are crazy. 1959 patterns going for £150+.

An excelelnt condition 3rd pattern 1954 Denison - £700+

Even 1960 Smock and trousers - both size 8 - £265

Happy to send over the £80 whenever you are ready Dave.....;-)

jason, as it has so little value, i think i'd like to be cremated wearing it under my '77 patt para smock and a full set of large 60 patt dpm and a set of olive :-d who said "you can't take it with you " ? :cool2:

lol! :-D

Thanks again guys

There is a photo of swim canoeist ashore with silenced SMG in a smock not sure if it is a large smock or one with a spray deck.

Arctic smocks do indeed still feature the wired hood....my reference to "initial issues" was meant to refer to both patterns as originally introduced........in time, the arctic and SAS windproofs both gained an additional small pocket on the upper-rear right arm, plus the arctic smock lost the rank tab on the rear of the garment as this was nearly always hidden beneath equipment............

I recently sold a decent late-model 60 pattern green smock on Ebay (only because I had 4 similar-sized examples in the collection) for an unbelievable £113........

For some people, money is no object........but I think that even if I were flush, I'd still be a tad hesitant about spending the earth on certain things.....there has to be a realistic limit at the end of the day......yet something is truly only worth what another is prepared to pay for it.....a rather accurate adage...:-|

I recently sold a decent late-model 60 pattern green smock on Ebay (only because I had 4 similar-sized examples in the collection) for an unbelievable £113........

 

 

I saw that Steve...amazing. There have been some truly astounding prices recently on Ebay. As I said Denisons seem to fetch a premium.

I saw that Steve...amazing. There have been some truly astounding prices recently on Ebay. As I said Denisons seem to fetch a premium.

I suggested £80 as a ball-park figure for perhaps the scruffiest examples of the 63 windproof.......repairs, missing cords and labels, non-original zips, etc, can all affect the value........personally, I would be very reluctant to part with half this sum for such an example........

Mint stuff, in good sizes and the rarer patterns are another matter........but when buying anything, I always have a limit set in my mind about when to walk away from an item, no matter how much I want it

Perhaps I have been more fortunate than others, but some of the nicest items in my collection have been bought or acquired for nominal sums, and within the last couple of years too (eg - my NOS green 63 pattern trousers at Beltring this year).......much has been found by rummaging around in surplus stores and at military shows, and I can't think of anything I've actually acquired that has come from Ebay......

You seem to have the midas touch Steve- might get you to sell a few of my items!!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320784410729?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true#ht_500wt_1285

You seem to have the midas touch Steve- might get you to sell a few of my items!!!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320784410729?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true#ht_500wt_1285

I am still in shock........£123-odd for a pair of used (but good) size 9 60 pattern strides..........I am now re-evaluating the insurance estimate on my stash......:-X....

Whilst the price for me may be good news for myself in the very short term, the wider picture is anything but.......the long-neglected post-war surplus now seems to be fast approaching the WW2 stuff in terms of price and attraction......I fear the days of bargains are fast ending.........:-(

.....I fear the days of bargains are fast ending.........:-(

Yes - the days of £5 - £10 60 pattern smocks have gone...or you need to spend an inordinate amount of time looking or just get lucky!

quote/ I have a size 3 Para smock - old 68 pattern style - originally issued to a Sergeant on tour with 2Para in NI in 1979.

sorry to resurrect a old thread but could you tell me the name of the 2 para sgt because i was in NI in 79 ,many thanks steve

sorry to resurrect a old thread but could you tell me the name of the 2 para sgt because i was in NI in 79 ,many thanks steve

Will PM you what I know....

Dont know if this picture upload has worked but if it has it may be of interest. Its a version of the old British Army 60 pattern smock made for the Bahrain Defence Force in the 1970's

One of these is for sale here if anyone's interested:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bahrain-middle-east-1970s-dense-spot-camo-jacket-RARE-/390952314345?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item5b0692e5e9