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gas detector - how does it work?


Duson

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Hello,

can anybody tell me how exactly this gas detector works. I assume the air is sucked in by the pump through one of the round detection papers which are enclosed in the handle compartment. Or am I wrong? Would anybody have an instruction manual? It is WWII.

Cheers,

Dusan

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Hi thier,

 

The papers you spoke off will only be part of the sytem, the paper is porous to allow air to pass but will most likley have a chemical reagent (or possibly more than one type of reagent dependant upon what you are testing for) to drop onto the paper first. It will then react of gas is present and change colour.

 

Remember that these were most likley used to check for an area that was actually clean, i should imagine you would know very very quickly that you were being gased and get your mask on.

 

A similar device called an RVD was used by the brit army for a good while before the kit became electronic. RVD stands for Residual Vapour Detector.

 

Regards

Tim

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Hi Tim,

 

thanks for the information. I also think the papers enclosed have some sort of chemicals on it to react with gas - change of colour such as the Gas detector Brassards widely used at the beginning of WWII do.

This gas detector has no date on but the pouch is 1943 issue.

My opinion is that the gas detector was used after the gas attack to check the level of contamination while having the gas mask on. I am not sure if the paper Brassards changed colour back to the original when the area was clear? This equipment would be a way to find out.

Of course I might be wrong. Would anybody else know?

Dusan

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Hi Tim,

 

thanks for the information. I also think the papers enclosed have some sort of chemicals on it to react with gas - change of colour such as the Gas detector Brassards widely used at the beginning of WWII do.

This gas detector has no date on but the pouch is 1943 issue.

My opinion is that the gas detector was used after the gas attack to check the level of contamination while having the gas mask on. I am not sure if the paper Brassards changed colour back to the original when the area was clear? This equipment would be a way to find out.

Of course I might be wrong. Would anybody else know?

Dusan

 

Hi Dusan,

 

Quite posible that the papers are pre treated..........the question is with and for what. As far as my limited knowledge of ww2 chemical attack you would be looking at Mustard Gas type of blistering agent. I believe that if the brassards or gas detection plates on the vehicles reacted it was a one shot deal the same as a litmus paper. They would have to be replaced or re-coated.

If i recall correctly the germans did actually develop the first nerve agent, but i am not aware of any actually being used.

Their is an interesting write up of a special raid laid on by the germans during the last months of the war to cross a river and reach a factory to destroy a stock of nerve agent before the russians realised what they were sat on. Quite successfull by all acounts.

 

Anybody else on the forum have any furthur info on this type of warfare during WW2??

 

I assume Chris, that you are familiar with sitting all by yourself in a hole in the ground dressed like a weirdo whilst all around are having a nice day ! :D

 

Regards

 

Tim g

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While I'm sure the paper discs are one use only I'm not too sure about the gas plates on trucks being a one shot deal -I think they may have been cleanable to a limited extent, pillar boxes tops were also painted with a yellow paint that would turn green or black depending on the level of mustard gas contamination and safety depending on when the contaminant evaporated or was washed off by rain -the idea of ARP running around scraping off contaminated paint and recoating after each raid seems a bit of a stretch. Mustard was very lethal even at low levels -as in the cases of horses/mules dying after eating lightly contaminated grass.

 

The nerve agent was Tabin (1936) Sarin (1938) and Soman (1944) but it has to be remembered that sheep dip is technically a nerve agent.

Edited by steveo578
addition nerve agent
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Hi Steve,

 

Had not realised that the developments on the german side were that early. I know that the brits were moving stocks of 25 Pdr munitions (mustard) to all theaters on the sly in case of enemy use. It wasn,t until the accident in italy that local medical chiefs were even informed it was around.

Even had stocks of it in singapore when it fell, it was meant to be ditched from barges at a location off shore but with time pressing it was sea dumped close in. Still have occasions of odd rounds being washed up.

 

Regards

Tim

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tim gray

I know that the brits were moving stocks of 25 Pdr munitions (mustard) to all theaters on the sly in case of enemy use. It wasn,t until the accident in italy that local medical chiefs were even informed it was around.

 

If I remember correctly the British storage barge at either Taranto or Naples was blown up -can't remember the circumstances -air bombing,sabotage or stupidity:nut: but so well covered up was the incident to only came to light in the late 1970s when doctors were contacting the War Pensions Dept. because they were treating ex servicemen with long term effects of mustard gas derivative exposure -most were down to this incident -although I imagine some may have resulted from the stupid way the mustard stockpiles especially aerial bombs were disposed at the end of WW2 by digging a hole and burning them.

 

Evidently Soman nerve agent was captured by the Russians along with the necessary manufacturing facility/knowledge. Don't know if Tabin and Sarin facilities were captured but it is likely as the main research facility was in Berlin and the 3rd reich was pretty poor at destroying assets -mainly because of Hitlers orders of no retreat -destroying things was classed as defeatist.

 

Steve

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Tim, I remember playing the cold war warrior miles away from everyone else very well. As the junior I always seamed to get nominated.

 

I spent some time at the old RAF Bowes Moor site clearing old mustard gas bombs. At wars end, they dug trenches, rolled the thin skinned bombs intothe ditches, covered with lime and then with a STEN, machine gunned them. The mustard gas then leaked out and reacted with the lime and cought fire. They then bull dozed the buildings (Brick work upto about 3-4 feet and then corrugated iron in a semi circular roof affair) into the ditches ontop of the remains. The modern day RAF decided they had better check for any undamaged bombs so we were tasked with re-digging the trenches and using mine detectors to retrieve what was left. Lots and lots of bricks! There was a permanent stench of bleach which I believe is a bi-product of the gas/lime reaction.

 

If anyone wants to have a look, go on google maps, look at the A66/A67 junction, there are some RAF buildings in the village, the main gate is now a farm just North on Clint lane and if you look north, north west of there you can see the bomb dump. I believe conventional weapons wern't supposed to be stored there however when my Sgt surveyed the area, they found a live 500LB bomb in a farmers barn. He had dragged it from the soil with his tractor many years earlier.

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While I'm sure the paper discs are one use only I'm not too sure about the gas plates on trucks being a one shot deal -I think they may have been cleanable to a limited extent, pillar boxes tops were also painted with a yellow paint that would turn green or black depending on the level of mustard gas contamination and safety depending on when the contaminant evaporated or was washed off by rain -the idea of ARP running around scraping off contaminated paint and recoating after each raid seems a bit of a stretch. Mustard was very lethal even at low levels -as in the cases of horses/mules dying after eating lightly contaminated grass.

 

The nerve agent was Tabin (1936) Sarin (1938) and Soman (1944) but it has to be remembered that sheep dip is technically a nerve agent.

 

The postwar "Kit, Vapour Detector, L1A1" contained a suction pump (similar to the WW2 one shown above), a lot of plastic inserts with filter-paper disks (one sort for Mustard , the other for Nerve gas), glass tubes preloaded with the mustard gas test agent, and yellow and white tablets (add one of each plus some water to a squeezy plastic tube, crush and shake until the pills dissolve, then put a drop on the sample disk and do your test).

 

Caution! One of the nerve agent test tablets is toxic/carcinogenic, and I can't remember which tube contained it. Be careful if you have a complete kit, don't let the kiddies near it.

 

Chris.

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Chris Hall

.....There was a permanent stench of bleach which I believe is a bi-product of the gas/lime reaction.

Well at least the reaction worked -both mustard and lewisite have chlorine as a major component -hence the bleach smell. I've heard of disposal by using gasoline -shooting at bombs until they leaked and ignited is either brave or fool-hardy:nut:. What was the ground like before digging -any grass or was it almost bare earth with a thin coating of chick weed?

 

Steve

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