What would a Lightweight have been used for in an artillery battery of the TA?

I just read the thread about "Vehicle's of the Falklands War" and a couple of semi-related threads and it got me thinking. I have never been in the military (drafted in 1970 for Vietnam and failed the eye test) so I really don't know what goes on in a military unit particlarily a British artillery unit like say, 212 Battery RA (V) where my 1974 Lightweight FFR served from 1974 until 1997...as far as how their vehicles are used. In particular how might and I say might because I'm not sure we will know until someone gets a picture or remembers it,..how might my particular vehicle have been used? I understand from the B Card that it is inspected at particular intervals and may go from a Class 1, to or 3, I guess depending on reliability so I assume that may change its used from time to time. Any way, I have been asking some particular questions in th past couple of days...how about some speculation now or maybe they were used in very specific ways. And don't say garbage truck...I have already used that one :0) See B Card Bil

212 (Highland) Battery, Royal Artillery ('The Scottish Gunners'), was (is) a Territorial Army Unit, based in Scotland. It was originally equipped with Starstreak missiles in the Air Defence role with E Troop at Arbroath, F Troop at Kirkaldy and G Troop at Lerwick on Shetland.

The unit became 105 (Scottish) Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery, on 1st April 1986 and is now equipped with the L118 Light Gun.

I would imagine that your Land Rover led a fairly easy life (salt corrosion may be an issue though, if it was based at Lerwick!) - you never know, it may have been the CO's Rover! The regiment may well be able to help and some still serving may remember it - or even have in service photos!!

I think what you are asking is - was it a gun tractor - no (but I suppose it would shuffle at the line). Did it go for the fish and chips - most certainly. Was it used as a ammo limber X country - probably to the line with a Sankey (or two) .....

In a recce regiment we rarely came across lightweights.

In Tidworth 1976-7 callsign 29 Golf was an echelon vehicle. Was it A1, A2 or B echelon? I cannot remember. What did A1, A2 and B echelon mean? I cannot remember. If memory serves, I suspect the Squadron Quartermaster sergeant's A echelon (29 Delta) worked up to regiment while B echelon (29 Golf) worked down to the sabre troops.

Since you ask, I don't remember there ever being a 29 Echo on the net and I think 29 Foxtrot was the squadron ambulance (which I happened to be commanding on my last ever exercise as recce at the moment the Union flag flew over Stanley).

My only ever other meeting with a lightweight was in UNFICYP where we had one issued to each sabre troop deployed to out-stations along the green line.

One Sunday the troop leader decided he wanted to travel from Larnaca to Episkopi to see his mukker (they were both fresh out of Sandhurst) and he asked our assigned MT driver to take him and anybody else who fancied a cabby out to see our mukkers in C Squadron, doing 18 months as Cyprus Armoured Car Squadron in the two Sovereign Bases.

When Bomber "sent him away" at the high port (expression sanitised to protect the pure in mind) because Troopy didn't have the authority to sign such a journey off on the work ticket, rommel turned to me, his driver, and asked if I fancied a cabby. Me, I'd drive anything. Catch was, because Rommel couldn't account for the mileage that would be clocked up, he had out attached REEM disconnect the speedo, so I did Larnaca to Epi guessing my speed. No problems.

Actually, come to think of it I think that was one of the few 3/4 tonners we had, not a lightweight. but hey.

I dod remember one of the MT drivers went out on a job in Nicosia one evening and managed to roll it (it being, IIRC, a lightweight). The duty operator promptly broadcast the classic radio message.

"Hello all stations this is 2. Somebody rolled a Rover over. Over." You had to be there.

The civvy police tried to prosecute him, having estimated his speed at the time of the crash at 125mph. Yeah, right.

I also remember the Guard-UN (our squadron newspaper, B Sqn 15/19H having the nickname with the regiment The Guards) carrying an article about MT matters and commenting that despite having disconnected the speedo, we'd still had to top up the petrol after our cabby and it meant that this particular Land Rover did not have a very good return of miles per gallon that month.

Sorry what was the question?

Well. I'm learning some interesting stuff. One of the problems is that being from the States and never having had the pleasure of serving, I don't understand a lot of what I just read!! Great story AlienFTM but I'm not 100% sure what I read! Not your fault. Mine!! Fortunately, no salt problems that I can see--happily! And ruxy...seems that I did smell fish and chips the first time I sat down in it. I was wondering what the different functions that a Ltwt FFR MIGHT have been used in in the artillery. Probably not a gun tractor, definately a fish and chips runner, but what about a forward observation vehicle or something else that it would have been used in a combat role. I understand that the TA was involved with the BAOR role...what would it have been used fro in that theater? I wonder if 212 Battery was ever deployed to support the Army in any active theater? Would that have been on the B card if 13 FM 51 went somewhere?

Again thanks you guys for all you time and effort in helping me understand all this!! Bil

Well. I'm learning some interesting stuff. One of the problems is that being from the States and never having had the pleasure of serving, I don't understand a lot of what I just read!! Great story AlienFTM but I'm not 100% sure what I read! Not your fault. Mine!! Fortunately, no salt problems that I can see--happily! And ruxy...seems that I did smell fish and chips the first time I sat down in it. I was wondering what the different functions that a Ltwt FFR MIGHT have been used in in the artillery. Probably not a gun tractor, definately a fish and chips runner, but what about a forward observation vehicle or something else that it would have been used in a combat role. I understand that the TA was involved with the BAOR role...what would it have been used fro in that theater? I wonder if 212 Battery was ever deployed to support the Army in any active theater? Would that have been on the B card if 13 FM 51 went somewhere?

Again thanks you guys for all you time and effort in helping me understand all this!! Bil

Every day is a school day Bil

They had far more FFR's than required for use with Unitary Radio kit - so many were used just as a 12 volt GS in a tactical role (there were not that many 88" CL's and they were used by MP's and driver training from what I observed around Catterick). For soft skinned radio trucks etc. I don't know how the TAVR RA sourced their radio operators , possibly attached from Royal Corps of Signals, if that was the case then probably the truck would come attached with them. This sort of indicates it was not used as FFR , there again it could have carried a Unitary kit for ground role - then it was released for GS.

AFAIK forward controllers would be in a armoured tank or similar with a fake shooter ??

I would think it must have been part of the Regiment total logistics - convoy movement every two years for summer camp with BAOR....

Bil

My FFR Lightweight is also ex-TA, although RE rather than RA. When I was fitting the equipment rack for the radio gear behind the seats, there were no holes drilled in the sides of the rear tub. This led me to assume that it had never been used as a radio car, but as ruxy suggests may simply have been used as a GS. Does yours have any unfilled holes?

Just a thought!

Mike

A full FFR "Unitary Kit" requires no extra holes or work to be done to fit. It all lifts in and clamps down with quick release hooks , can also be used in a ground role under a tent c/w sliding operators seats that can also be used like a deck chair. Normally in this role it would have two more batteries in the tray , they would probably re-charge with a small Onan set if the truck was away and unable to plug the extension lead in...

I doubt if many were used in a limited radio role using a Manpack and dexion - like collectors do now (just keeps the tub free to carry Thermalite blocks etc). I was in the TAVR Royal Signals and we did have some Pye sets but these were in 88" Rover 8 and 10's - never noticed one in a Lightweight.

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Thanks ruxy for posting that. I looked for a good description of one with the pictures and your is much better than I have found. I am going to post another thread about whether or not mine may have ever had the kit in it. I took some pictures and I do have some extra holes. Please look for my new thread. I want your opinions. I figured we could get some other people interested if I changed the title of this thread. Bil

Can't answer for the RA - never was a gunner - but in my old lot the Lightweights were used primarily as hacks by the officers, training wing staff, any one who needed one etc, when out on exercise, "showing the badge" or on Selection/Continuation. Half our allocation were 24v but none had radios fitted to them during their life with the Regiment. All would have been used to tug a Sankey at one time or another - usually tentage or the cooks No 1 burners and kit.

For personnel transport - if an MK or TK was over kill - we had a couple of 109's that also hauled sankeys - normally with tentage etc in.

This - of course - is referring to the vehicles on establishment both at DoY and the outlying squadrons. On exercise proper the number of 109's went up exponentially as Sabre squadrons were deployed in the field with MEXE hides and all their related Kit....

Some FM's left Ruddington after a very short service life !

19 FM 65 in 1980 , perfect condition "Padre Wagon" - best of all at auction..

Still not worked out all the financials - IIRC cost me about £2000 plus inc. Nottingham hotel bill and costs getting it back home. Ran it until 1998 - on blocks awaiting full refurb..

Not many had all their service life with only one regiment !!

theredkite - I see you live at Hexham , just one valley nearer the Tartan Curtain than me....

Ok ruxy...you are going to have to translate the "Location" section of your B card and what is the card beneath it, My first time for one of those! Bil

Great to know what our Landi's have done and where been. One entry on my Merlin report, unspecified unit, special technical opperations??

Andy.

If you look at the photographs on the other thread , you will notice that there is black paint in middle of doors. Ruddington used to take a chisel to all markings and black them out, there was a mark on the rear also (probably union flag) - it was in factory DBG still and 1 year after I got it I used wet-n-dry and gave it a flash coat or two (well more than several) with celle paint. I was carefull sanding through the black paint but all I found was bits of two or three colours ///// see amd.

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PS.. (amd. just remembered I have this noted in vehicle log) . Union flag on rear The doors were marked with X7 and front and rear were marked with 1.1/4. black and yellow badges front and rear.

Yes , I should contact the 35 Sig. TA and get badge details for after next re-spray , X7 was I would say too small for a call sign , IIRC about 4 or 5" high at most , don't know what 1.1/4. means ???

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At Ruddington , loose items (nickable) were also numbered with Lot No. for security to check at gate-house - so seat base cushions, spare wheel & jack were marked with white paint !!

I had it for 10 years before doing a history search :-

M of AT now closed (apparently high stripping cost of asbestos roof etc. - hence "B" cards now at Royal Logistics Corp. @ Deepcut Bks.

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Nothing much to say for history - but bits I don't quite understand.

1. ASH = Ashchurch (CVD / Central Vehicle Depot)

2. Only one Regiment. BUT - I don't know what (TK) means ??

35 Signal Regiment (V)

RHQ – Coventry

Squadrons: Birmingham; Newcastle-Under-Lyme; Rugby; Shrewsbury.

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I found this quite amusing because from 1968 to 1971 - I was with 34 Northern Signal Regiment (V) - based in N.E. England.

Now when I was with them all the Rovers , Austin & Bedford trucks were in DBG , abt. 1969 permission was given for Regimental badges on the doors. There was a design competition and the winner for 34 Regt. was a white/blue sort of lightening (spark) flash and I put quite a few decals on !

Then it went to Ruddington for disposal - dates seen to be booking in date , auction date & Lot No.

The TA in those days were well equipped with brand new Rovers (well what I saw of them) , washed down well before garaged. ISTR that officers never drove . There were drivers and ED's - I was a Electrician Driver , strange because I was a apprentice Fitter & Turner in real life - but I did have a ONC for Electrical , if I had not joined the Merchant Navy - I was destined for Electronics Technician but they wanted me to work through electrical first. Officers did drive them to a pub on a night , one got rolled on the NY Moors and he was sacked , don't recall if he was Court Marshalled first !!

The record sheet for the financial , I don't think Deepcut give you a print off - quite a bit I am uncertain of so pointless speculating..

Ruxy--thanks for the translation. The only thing tgat I can think that TK is is tank. I know that A/tk is anti-tank and I have seen plenty of reference to TK Battalion,etc. Could the regiment that your vehicle was assigned to been assigned them selves as communications for a tank unit? ?? Bil

One of the reasons I never bothered for 10 years to get the history , In 1980 there was not even a handfull of books available with any info. on military Land Rovers - offhand - I think I had only 1 and small bits in another general book.

No possibility of doing Goo0000gle searches. You relied on people in local MV clubs with better knowledge , often the ones who had regular military service could be trusted more, one of these (a jeep man) called to see the remains of the markings - looked and said "X7 field commanders car RA" - I just accepted !!!

In reply to your question - from my 3 years experience with 34 Sig Reg. (V) - I don't think so , often we were on a weekend exercise and the rankers did not ever get the broad picture. We were once on a area with some RA in practice , we tried to get near the guns but were prevented - I don't think there was any connection ....

Hi Ruxy

Yes there seem to be a few of us up here holding the line against the hordes north of the roman wall...;-) Must be something to do with all that space we have!

Mike

From the MoD website - prior to it being disbanded in 2009 as part of the Defence Review this was 35 Signal Regiment (VR):

35 Signal Regiment is a specialist communications Regiment, we use a communication system called Ptarmigan (Named after the shy and reclusive mountain bird "Ptarmigan" sometimes seen at altitude in Scotland) The system uses digital microwave radios to provide secure communications to headquarters over a large area. It can also link into satellite communications systems and civilian systems to allow global communications. We also use more traditional radio sets, and provide high and very high frequency radio communications.