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Abandoned Tanks in Germany.


Stormin

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doesn't follow that just because they have no apparent shell RL or ATWG damage that they aren't military assets in some form of training area- it could currently be a none firing area it fairly rare these days to allow targeting tanks in trees with anything larger than blanks, especially in Germany- the tree huggers get really annoyed and you're not allowed to shoot them :-( .

 

Steve

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so it's official, some german range armour has survived. i wonder what else is waiting to be found in the woods, quite possibly wrecks that have had trees grown around them which prohibited there removal :cool2:

 

eddy

 

Have chainsaw.... will travel....

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  • 4 months later...

A popular story that did the rounds in Cavalry/Tank Regiments serving in West Germany in the mid 70s was of a MkII Chieftain that got bogged in the Swinderbeck river on Soltau training area. The tank eventually became totally submerged in mud and was unrecoverable and it is alledgely still there. I have also heard another story relating to this same incident claiming that the driver died in the incident?

I know from my own experiences of this river that it is totally plausible as a Troop Sergeants tank in my Squadron whilst on Troop training got bogged but was eventually recovered by three Centurion ARV's. All hail the Reccy mech!

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A popular story that did the rounds in Cavalry/Tank Regiments serving in West Germany in the mid 70s was of a MkII Chieftain that got bogged in the Swinderbeck river on Soltau training area. The tank eventually became totally submerged in mud and was unrecoverable and it is alledgely still there. I have also heard another story relating to this same incident claiming that the driver died in the incident?

I know from my own experiences of this river that it is totally plausible as a Troop Sergeants tank in my Squadron whilst on Troop training got bogged but was eventually recovered by three Centurion ARV's. All hail the Reccy mech!

 

I have heard of that sunken chieftain rumour, also from a Tank Regt., old boy.

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diver99

I have heard of that sunken chieftain rumour, also from a Tank Regt., old boy.

 

but it's also a generational rumour -older "ol boys" tell stories of Cent, gun tanks and even the odd Conqueror disappearing into the mire-or river on the Soltau and other training areas. Probably go back far enough it did for a Cromwell or Comet or three - but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a story of an odd Roman or barbarian chariot sinking too:D.

 

There are also rumours of Panthers maybe Tiger Is pulled out in the 1970s and used as targets:undecided:

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waggy.....

The tank eventually became totally submerged in mud and was unrecoverable and it is alledgely still there. I have also heard another story relating to this same incident claiming that the driver died in the incident?

The incident of the chieftain driver who drown is well documented there is even photos of the aftermath of the incident and recovery of the tank.

 

There are also rumours of a Scimitar from an OTC cadre that sank on Otterburn in 2000, perhaps the reason why a couple of Challenger ARVs were despatched to the range. I heard rumours the recovery was unsucessful -I also heard rumours the whole thing was exegerated out of all proportion;).

 

Steve

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diver99

That might be feasible as the French used Panthers after the war for a while i believe

I meant they were wehrmacht tanks -rumour has it even experimental -early Panther left in the former wehrmacht/manufacturers proving grounds since WW2

 

It's unlikely the French would not have lost a Panther or anything else in the British control area as they tended to keep very much in their own zone - it became more so after De Gaulle took power.

 

Although the French indeed use a few individual captured Panthers in WW2 (as did the British) the only units that used them Post War were 503e RRC and 6e Cuirasurs and neither used them in battalion numbers at best troop or squadron numbers the rest was made up with Shermans and sometimes h/tracks, serving during the fall/winter/spring of 1945-46 until retired for lack of spares. I think one of the tanks formerly at Place de Concorde was an ex 503e tank.

 

The real reason for their service was to obtain experience with a heavy tank prior to the deployment of the ARL44 (in 1950) and possible service of the experimental AMX 25-40-50 series in the future. All of which "benefited" from 3rd Reich technology such as the Maybach motor and suspension-trackwork in the AMX. In reality the French despite their rabid nationalism ended up with US M46 in 1954 and M47 shortly after to supplement their Sherman fleet.

 

The British also trialed Panthers and Jagdpanthers in 1945-46 -indeed the Bovington Panther is one of those built under REME control in Germany for that purpose. Some were used as targets on British ranges in Germany in the 1940/50s as no doubt were other ex wehrmacht wrecks.

 

Steve

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The British also trialed Panthers and Jagdpanthers in 1945-46 -indeed the Bovington Panther is one of those built under REME control in Germany for that purpose. Some were used as targets on British ranges in Germany in the 1940/50s as no doubt were other ex wehrmacht wrecks.

 

Steve

 

The Jagdpanther recovered from Pirbright ranges and restored by SDkfz foundation was one built for evalution, years ago I used to know a driver from FVRDE who was the brave man who drove it over live mines to assess the damage !

Edited by Nick Johns
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... the tree huggers get really annoyed and you're not allowed to shoot them :-( .

 

Steve

 

Going all the way to the 1970s. We may have been there to keep 3 Shock Army the other side of the IGB, but Heaven protect a crewman from the wrath of a Forstmeister if he caught him cutting branches for cam or driving a nail in to hang a net from.

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I have heard of that sunken chieftain rumour, also from a Tank Regt., old boy.

 

Pull up a sandbag. My last day playing with armour on exercise. A day or so previously, the Gurkha QM's message that the Union Flag was flying over Stanley was passed verbatim in clear on all nets right down the chain of command to me, sat in the turret of the Squadron Ambulance (Samaritan) trying to get the driver (Sqn medic) to sneak up behind a 9/12L (Orange forces) Scorpion that had pulled onto the road right in front of me and blissfully unaware I was there. I wanted to nick their codes: he reminded me of the Geneva Convention.

 

As was the norm, we had straightened the line, advancing backwards for two weeks until Orange forces ran out of steam and it was our turn to push them back over the IGB. I was sat in the back of 2 Bravo, running the combat team command net (and monitoring the battlegroup command net in my other ear).

 

It was all turning to rat droppings as CVR(T) after CVR(T) ran into difficulties in the marshy ground. The command net was filling up with Noduff messages about vehicles requiring Bluebell assistance when, for the first time in a fortnight, we were winning. The net was disintegrating into chaos. (Combat team command nets always seemed to be busier when we were going forward. Maybe more control needing to be exercised because what happened during the withdrawal was always straight-forward whereas in the assault, there were more options.)

 

Out of the corner of my eye I was aware of the Squadron Leader bimbling across from his Land Rover and he sat next to me.

 

I went into the usual control signaller mode. "Hello all stations this is 2. Minimise, minimise. Out"

 

The unmistakeable voice of the Regimental Signals Sergeant (who'd joined Command Troop shortly before I left it to return to a sabre squadron) came up. "Hello 2 this is Zero. Nothing wrong with this net. Wrong means? Over"

 

I stared in disbelief at the pressel in my hand. I stared at the OC (who looked sheepishly back at me) and noticed his hand coming down from the junction box having just switched me from combat team to battlegroup Command Net without thinking that I was running a net here, sir. He squirmed, knowing he'd dropped me in it (it didn't take the filthy look I gave him to tell him), reset the junction box to the combat team command net and slithered back off under his rock.

 

He got into his Land Rover and came onto the net. "Hello all stations this is two-niner. the trains are booked from the railhead for 1300 hours. Endex is at 1200 hours. Anyone else gets himself bogged down, he can recover himself or walk back to Paderborn. When we were stationed here (on Chieftain, in Fallingbostel until the start of the Omagh tour in 1974), I remember a Chieftain sinking in these marshes and it was never recovered. Out."

 

Then he switched to battlegroup command net to send them the mundane message he'd wanted to interrupt me with.

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Quote Waggy;- The tank eventually became totally submerged in mud and was unrecoverable and it is alledgely still there. I have also heard another story relating to this same incident claiming that the driver died in the incident?

 

The Chiefy that missed the hard crossing (which was clearly mine taped) at the Causeway on Saltau was a troop commanders tank, it was late 1974 or early 75 & it was the 13/18th Royal Hussars (QMO) on their very first exercise in BAOR having taken over from QOH.

 

It was the early hours of the morning, the driver was driving with the hatch open & his gas kit under his seat, the gun was over the rear & therefore the turret bustle above his head. The tank nose dived into the bog & the water line in the turret came up to the B47 radio. The driver could not drop his seat due to the gas kit & unable to escape drowned in the mud. The troop commander made several attempts to dive down under the mud to rescue the driver from within the turret, by this time the driver was already dead of course & due to the gas kit under his seat the troopie could do nothing.

 

Six Chieftains, linked up with their tow ropes tried to pull it out & failed. The first Cent ARV, B Sqn, raced to the scene via Bispingen village high street, (out of bounds to tracked vehicles), in order to get there quickly. In doing so it very nearly sliced the roof off a Beetle with its spade while making a neutral turn. The Beetle had 2 German civvies on board who later reported the ARV to the German Police.

 

Once on the scene the recy mech tried a quick tow chain pull using the heavy recovery chains from the front of his ARV to the back of the Cheiftain, this failed. The next attempt was a 1;1 straight pull, having turned around & dropped its spade, the Chieftain moved very slightly but the ARV broke its winch rope. A second Cent ARV, A Sqn, arrived 30 minutes later & a 2;1 pull was laid out. The Chieftain WAS recovered & did not sink without trace.

 

L/Cpl H Whitehead. Recy Mech, B Sqn LAD, 13/18RH. 1974/5. (yes it was me)

 

H

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RecyMech

In doing so it very nearly sliced the roof off a Beetle with its spade while making a neutral turn. The Beetle had 2 German civvies on board who later reported the ARV to the German Police.

 

Nearly doesn't count the b****** should be

1). gratefull the spade missed and

2). grateful BAOR were there to protect them

 

ingrates:-D

 

Steve

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Very sad that story... it is so often that those killed in training accidents are sadly forgotten in the mist of time.

 

The point about the Beetle incident reminds me of a story my dad told me of when a german driver speeding through the morning fog managed to slice his car in half via a mineplough attached to a cent/chief. (luckily the driver escaped unharmed if somehwat shock and confused!).

 

m0rris

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  • 1 year later...

hi there,

taking up the lead from the last post about army personal getting killed on execise in BAOR . In the mid 70''s, at Fallingbostal a M107/175mm SPG, belonging to 42nd Heavy Regt RA left the road & turned over killing the No.1 & trapping 3 of the crew under it. It happen on a "Quick Train" EX in mid August 1976, How do i know this well, I was one of trapped crew under the Gun. Reg No. 04 ED 54

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Nearly doesn't count the b****** should be

1). gratefull the spade missed and

2). grateful BAOR were there to protect them

 

ingrates:-D

 

Steve

 

For three years I spent my exercise evening sat in the back of the 15/19H BG Command Saracen / Sultan. Many was the time we'd receive a NODUFF* message reporting that in the wee small hours after the pubs had shut, another Merc containing four young adult males had ploughed into the back of an armoured column, there were casualties and Starlight** assistance was urgently required.

 

------------------------

* No Direction Find: this is not an exercise message and is to be treated with high priority.

** Starlight: appointment indicator for medical services.

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