Saracen chassis number...where is it...

can anyone point me to where I might find the number...

It should be above the two rear doors. However, if its an uparmourd one then its likly to be coverd up. My Saracen also has the chassis number on the two escape hatches. But these can be swoped arround....

well i have confirmation that the cards for my model have been lost...it is 24 BA 25 which makes it a Mk1 upgraded to a mk5 D...but when it was originally manufactured I CANNOT CONFIRM AS NO ONE HAS THE CARDS.

I know it was before 1959 as the thing in the manual i have it says that up to 30 BA 71 had different gearing than later ones and the books was published 1959...so it must be in the mid 50's...

I thought the gearing difference was early ones run 100/20 and later 1200/20 ??? saladin saracen same ratio and stolly salamander is mutch lower geared. i thought.

have to check again as my numbers are not at all clear, am thinking it should be 84 BA 75...not 25 will check tomorrow...

I know it was before 1959 as the thing in the manual i have it says that up to 30 BA 71 had different gearing than later ones and the books was published 1959...so it must be in the mid 50's...

1st gear ratio in the gearbox was 8.5:1 on Saracen up to 30BA70, then from 30BA71 it was 10.27:1 . In 1955 edition of EMER it was stated that on overhaul of early gearboxes, ratio for 1st would be changed to 10.27:1

I thought the gearing difference was early ones run 100/20 and later 1200/20 ??? saladin saracen same ratio and stolly salamander is mutch lower geared. i thought.

Are you thinking of tyre sizes? 11.00-20 originally, then when uparmoured they were changed to 12.00-20 same as Saladin

It should be above the two rear doors. However, if its an uparmourd one then its likly to be coverd up. My Saracen also has the chassis number on the two escape hatches. But these can be swoped arround....

Hi

My saracen is uparmoured and mil reg unknown. However, on the escape hatches it says 915 os and 915 ns (off side and nearside presumeably). Does this mean that my chassis number is 915? Sound about right? If so, what does this tell me about my saracen?

Cheers

Paul

Good News,

It looks like the correct number for my saracen is 84 BA 25 as last described, Martin and Bovingdon has found its histroy card, i have paid my 15 quid and the information will be with me tomorrow...happy now...

I would think that 915 would be a reasonable chassis number...there were quiet a few of them made i understand...

well i have confirmation that the cards for my model have been lost...it is 24 BA 25 which makes it a Mk1 upgraded to a mk5 D...but when it was originally manufactured I CANNOT CONFIRM AS NO ONE HAS THE CARDS.

 

I know it was before 1959 as the thing in the manual i have it says that up to 30 BA 71 had different gearing than later ones and the books was published 1959...so it must be in the mid 50's...

Hi Paulob,

You seem to have the hang of this chassis numbering episode, would you care to elaborate a bit for a lesser mortal like me, please?

I have chassis number 96BA67 and can't get the history card either. I thought all South African Saracens would be from the 96BA series but photos I have taken from the scrapyards, show a variety of other numbers as well.

Regards,

Monty.

no I am not as wise as you think...mine was built in 1956, well went into service then...2 july 1956, so tomorrow is its birthday...mine is 84 BA 25...have you tried the army museum in Farnborough...and or Bovingdon for the history card...

Hi

 

My saracen is uparmoured and mil reg unknown. However, on the escape hatches it says 915 os and 915 ns (off side and nearside presumeably). Does this mean that my chassis number is 915? Sound about right? If so, what does this tell me about my saracen?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Paul,

I have a Mk 6 and have also been searching for numbers without any luck. I saw your post about the escape hatches and decided to have a look. Mine read "NS06" and "OS06" OR??? "90SN" and 90SO" No numbers that cannot be read upside down and no lines beneath. Any more clues to whether these hatch numbers point to any history?

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Regards,

Bob

Hi

Mine clearly say 915os and 915 ns on the escape hatches, and this is also given as a chassis number on the VRN document, although no mil reg is given unfortunetly.

I would say that os is off side and ns is nearside as this is where they are on my saracen. Therefore, more than likely yours is number 06, which is early. Are there any other clues? Changes were made during production, things like dip sticks in bevel boxes were added on later saracens. There is mention of a few things in the illustrated parts catalogue, I'll have a look through.

Cheers

Paul

Hi

 

Therefore, more than likely yours is number 06, which is early.

 

Paul

If so would this mean I have the 6th chassis built? Hard to imagine that is the case. As to other clues I have taken several other suggestions on where to look, but the uparmouring seem to negate them all. I have not yet removed floor pans as another post mentioned. I will take some photos of the stamping on the hatches and try to sort out how to post them here. I suppose it is also time to do some gentle sanding above the radiator. Anyone have other suggestions, I would appreciate hearing them. Thanks Regards,

Bob

Good News,

 

It looks like the correct number for my saracen is 84 BA 25 as last described, Martin and Bovingdon has found its histroy card, i have paid my 15 quid and the information will be with me tomorrow...happy now...

 

I would think that 915 would be a reasonable chassis number...there were quiet a few of them made i understand...

Hi Paulob,

Checking on the reference I posted on the Saracen rebuild thread http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16817-Saracen-Build-up/page18, your Saracen's number does show up.

84BA04 Saracen APC

84BA16 Saracen ACV Ulster

84BA25 Saracen Mk 5 APC

84BA26 Saracen APC Hong Kong

84BA32 Saracen Mk 5 ACV

Regards,

Monty.

Hi

 

Therefore, more than likely yours is number 06, which is early. Are there any other clues? Changes were made during production, things like dip sticks in bevel boxes were added on later saracens.

Cheers

 

Paul

I am still hopeful I will someday find numbers, but the attached photos did not tell me much. Both "06" hatch stampings are included along with a picture of the normally numbered space above the radiator. At the moment the vehicle is painted a sort of gray/ green color and black. I tried to carefully sand through what I thought would be many layers of paint but found only what looked like white then factory green then red primer and bare metal. The black looked a bit like oriental characters. I would be grateful for any thoughts here.

Regards Bob

Hi guys,

I took some pics of the numbering in my Saracen, maybe it will shed some light.

This the number above the rear door stating "Alv 721"

This is also the number on the identification plate

This is the number on the port hatch, I buy the theory of "near side"

Two snaps, quality sucks!

This is the number on the starboard side which will be the "Off side". Definitely from another vehicle as it is different.

The Alv 721 must then refer to some number in the Alvis factory, probably a production number as this is also a Mark 2 (read early), on the other plate it states Saracen Mark 3 SA, probably with the mods (longer nose, hinged snout, etc.)

Hopes it helps a little.

Cheers,

Monty.

Hi guys,

This Saracen British Alvis numbering system is driving me up the creek. Is there ANYBODY that has an idea of how these vehicles were numbered????:nut::undecided::confused:

80BA50 Saracen APC Queens Own Yeomanry

80BA57 Saracen APC

82BA00 Saracen Mk 2 APC

82BA06 Saracen Mk 2 ACV FVRDE 1962

82BA07 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

82BA08 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

82BA22 Saracen Mk 2 Ambulance

82BA60 Saracen APC converted to ACV

82BA62 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

82BA68 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

82BA78 Saracen APC

82BA85 Saracen Mk 5 APC fitted with Anti RPG Mesh Ludgershall

82BA87 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

82BA90 Saracen Mk 5 Ambulance

82BA96 Saracen Mk 5 ACV

83BA06 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

83BA19 Saracen FV611 Ambulance 1 of only 12 produced

83BA41 Saracen Mk 5 APC

83BA49 Saracen Mk 1 APC Royal Engineers Bomb Disposal

83BA57 Saracen Mk 2 ACV

83BA61 Saracen Mk 2 APC

83BA84 Saracen APC

I was looking for the number of a South African Saracen, 80BA46. It should be amongst this mix. How did they (Alvis) do it that the 88 versions were made in between others and everybody once thought there only was one(?) prototype?

Looking at this attachment, it is a mess, ie. it is in no particular order, Mk 5, then mk2, then ACP for example. But then, maybe it's only me.

Cheers,

Monty.

Hi Montie

Alot of those saracens would have been built as basic mk 2's for instance and numbered by alvis at the factory. Alot of the mods e.g. mk 5 uparmoured, acv etc would have been done later in service. However, talk to toolman, he is trying to discover the mil reg. of his ferret and found that the ferrets were not registered in the order that they were built.

I'm having issues finding my own saracens reg. as well.

Cheers

Paul

Monty,

Australia had some 28 APC versions of the Saracen. I have listed below the British Registration Numbers, Hull Numbers and Australian Registration Numbers for future reference. There were also a couple of Fitters variants as well which are on your list..

Two numbers are on the list on the you have supplied. 82BA07 and 82BA08.

Mine is 81BA97, Hull number 524, ARN. 115378, and is the actual Saracen which I drove during 1969 to 1971. It was a complete fluke that I ended up with MY Saracen. Fortunately I have a photo of me driving it taken in March 1969.

BRITISH REG NO HULL No AUST REG NO

81BA02.................. 366............... 115366

81BA11 ..................538 ...............115367

81BA78 ..................--- .................115375

81BA80 ..................--- .................115388

81BA81 ..................--- .................115385

81BA83 ..................--- .................115379

81BA84 ..................--- .................115380

81BA85 .................512 ................115364

81BA86 ..................--- .................115381

81BA87 ..................--- .................115382

81BA89 ..................--- .................115383

81BA90.................. --- .................115384

81BA94 .................521 ................115369

81BA95 .................522 ................115365

81BA97 .................524 ................115378 ....................Rick Cove

81BA98 .................525 ................115363

81BA99 .................526................ 115362

82BA01 .................528 ................115361

82BA03 .................530 ................115373

82BA05 .................532 ................115377

82BA07 .................534 ................115368

82BA08 .................535 ................115389

82BA10 .................537 ................115376

82BA12 .................539 ................115387

82BA17 .................544 ................115374

82BA18 .................545 ................115372

82BA19 .................546 ................115390

82BA23 .................561 ................115386

88BA09 .................536 ................115370

88BA13 .................540 ................115371

Regards Rick.

I don't know if it's of any interest, but having just found some old photos of my days with

'A' Sqn. Royal Yeomanry, I have started listing the Army Reg. Nos. The dates are from 1975 to 1986, and include Ferrets, Saladins, Saracens, Foxes and some 'B' vehicles. I've only found a few photos at the moment, but now I've started, I'm eager to find the rest I'm sure I've got.

So far, what I have found is :

Saladin 07BB16

Saracen 82BA44 (APC)

Saracen 81BA45 (ACV)?

Ferret 36BA15

Ferret 01CA38

Ferret 01DA22

Fox 08FD64

Fox 08FD94

Fox 09FD18

Fox 09FD25

Fox 09FD36

Fox 10FD44

Fox 11FD20

Bedford MK 48GB28

Bedford MK 00FH90

As I said, I'm sure I've got more somewhere, If anyone's interested.

Chas.

I don't know if it's of any interest, but having just found some old photos of my days with

'A' Sqn. Royal Yeomanry, I have started listing the Army Reg. Nos. The dates are from 1975 to 1986, and include Ferrets, Saladins, Saracens, Foxes and some 'B' vehicles. I've only found a few photos at the moment, but now I've started, I'm eager to find the rest I'm sure I've got.

So far, what I have found is :

 

Saladin 07BB16

Saracen 82BA44 (APC)

Saracen 81BA45 (ACV)?

Ferret 36BA15

Ferret 01CA38

Ferret 01DA22

Fox 08FD64

Fox 08FD94

Fox 09FD18

Fox 09FD25

Fox 09FD36

Fox 10FD44

Fox 11FD20

Bedford MK 48GB28

Bedford MK 00FH90

As I said, I'm sure I've got more somewhere, If anyone's interested.

 

Chas.

I'm sure everyone would be interested to see the photos mate, but if someone OWNS one of those mv's then the photos would be like the holy grail to them.

Please post a few, especially the saracen acv please.

Cheers

Paul

I don't know if it's of any interest, but having just found some old photos of my days with

'A' Sqn. Royal Yeomanry, I have started listing the Army Reg. Nos. The dates are from 1975 to 1986, and include Ferrets, Saladins, Saracens, Foxes and some 'B' vehicles. I've only found a few photos at the moment, but now I've started, I'm eager to find the rest I'm sure I've got.

So far, what I have found is :

 

Saladin 07BB16

Saracen 82BA44 (APC)

Saracen 81BA45 (ACV)?

Ferret 36BA15

Ferret 01CA38

Ferret 01DA22

Fox 08FD64

Fox 08FD94

Fox 09FD18

Fox 09FD25

Fox 09FD36

Fox 10FD44

Fox 11FD20

Bedford MK 48GB28

Bedford MK 00FH90

As I said, I'm sure I've got more somewhere, If anyone's interested.

 

Chas.

Yes Sir! Please do! I couldn't agree more with Paul!

Regards,

Monty.

So far as very early Saracens are concerned, there was the prototype, ALV1 chassis/build no which had a civvi reg no, then the second one was 30BA00, ALV 2 etc. Next batch were in the 82BA to 83BA series, so far as I know, the ALV numbers were allocated in sequence of build but obviously, the Army Reg numbers would only be allocated to ones going to the British Army: any vehicles going elsewhere would have the sequential chassis number but there would be a gap in the Army numbers. After a number of Saracens (maybe 3 or 4 hundred???) Saladins started to be produced. They had the sequential chassis numbers, sort of "numbered as it came out of the factory door" but they might be 10 saracens followed by 5 saladins followed by 20 saracens etc, the War Department numbers following there own sequences as the blocks for saracen and saladins being separately allocated. Later stalwarts started coming out.........

After building, during their 40 odd years of use, each vehicle would have been rebuilt several times and would frequently come out as a different mark, uparmoured, different wiring, different use etc so looking now, you will list Mk2 then 5 then acp, then mk3 then ambulance etc whereas they would all have been built as Mk 1 then changing to Mk 2 then to Mk 3 etc as they came from Coventry.

I have a Mk 1 (30BA10, Alv 12) an uparmoured Mk5 ambulance (no number visible, cannot remember WD number but is either 82 or 83BA** (am at work at present!), a saladin which I think is 01CC70??, chassis about Alv 475ish and another Saladin on long term loan which has no chassis plate but is 06BB90

I found the info about the escape doors useful (will look myself now!) but the "06" chassis number is either from 30BA04 or possibly it is chassis number ALV1006 but they did not bother to stamp the first two digits which I have seen on other vehicles: my tank is chassis number M1022 but the bits are all marked "22" except one which has "1022" in full.

Hi John

Thanks for the info.

Do you know anything about the contracts that were placed? I have a date in service and a sale number from the MOD but no mil. reg.

I would like to narrow it down a bit if I could. Date in service was june 1959.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Guys.

I have an uparmored MK5 and found the registration when I had the fuel tamk removed.

With the tank removed it was located under the paint on the floor of the vehicle in the rear right corner of the floor looking over the lip of the rear doors (as a point of referance it is on the floor straight down fromroughly where the gas tank vent tube is located).

It contained the reg number of the vehicle, a date (about a year before the"in service" date of the paperwork from Bovie) and some initials and numbers (QA maybe).

Hope this helps, I would never had found it if the gas tank had not leaked and had to remove it to fix the leaks. We then sandblasted the floor to repaint it and discovered the stampings!!!

Mark