Have British Army Vehicles always had the engines and ancills painted turquoise?

[Richard Farrant]

Hi all

I have also deduced that the white stenciled number I mentioned across the block is what appears to me to be the number '80'. Does anyone have any idea as to what this would be for please? The colour is prevelent all around the block in the grey so looks genuine and original.

It might have been something to identify it when going through the machining process. Castings are often painted in a primer before machining.

[ruxy]

Almost certainly the 80th manufacturing day of the year or a batch number , QC as the blocks go through the transfer line. Typical of mass production.
Often very important castings that go through individual machining have a treacability number cast on and another individual sample with the same number cast on the casting (this is later removed and retained for Q.C.) Sometimes yet another one is removed for chemical & physical lab. tests before machining starts. When the samples are removed it is normally subject to independant witness and branding with unique ID stamps.
Not a big problem with iron castings but with steel castings there can often be a few casts to gat a radiograph defect free casting for highest classification , standard procedures often releases the defective ones for gouging and weld repairs for lesser quality jobs where possible.

[Rover8FFR]

Almost certainly the 80th manufacturing day of the year or a batch number , QC as the blocks go through the transfer line. Typical of mass production.
Often very important castings that go through individual machining have a treacability number cast on and another individual sample with the same number cast on the casting (this is later removed and retained for Q.C.) Sometimes yet another one is removed for chemical & physical lab. tests before machining starts. When the samples are removed it is normally subject to independant witness and branding with unique ID stamps.
Not a big problem with iron castings but with steel castings there can often be a few casts to gat a radiograph defect free casting for highest classification , standard procedures often releases the defective ones for gouging and weld repairs for lesser quality jobs where possible.

Thanks Ruxy, but the question I am driving to is that should such a mark, whether it be QC or not be retained on an engine after manufacture.

I haven't known of such ID on a civi landrover block, but would a military one be less of an issue from an aesthetical point?

[ruxy]

I have come across a few marking similar on Ex-MOD engines , I would just paint over it as it is not of any importance.

More important is the decision to paint / dress the engine in the condition it would be ex-Solihull or how it would look after a ABRO recon / engine preservation with a preserved date stencilled on rocker cover etc.

Early engines (early 1960's) did have a sort of Fery grey finish , your colour would be as near SKY Blue / Duck Egg Green (Both RAF colours and arguably the same colour). Wit time , heat & grime - it does discolour to0 a pale lime colour that can fool.

[Richard Farrant]

I have come across a few marking similar on Ex-MOD engines , I would just paint over it as it is not of any importance.

More important is the decision to paint / dress the engine in the condition it would be ex-Solihull or how it would look after a ABRO recon / engine preservation with a preserved date stencilled on rocker cover etc.

Early engines (early 1960's) did have a sort of Fery grey finish , your colour would be as near SKY Blue / Duck Egg Green (Both RAF colours and arguably the same colour). Wit time , heat & grime - it does discolour to0 a pale lime colour that can fool.

I see the upper photo has a plate saying it is reconditioned for ABRO, so it was put out to contract. At one time, British Rail at Derby had a contract to rebuild 2.25 petrol engines, the least said about them the better, they should have stuck to running trains .

The engine paint used on rebuilds was Sky Blue ( not Duck Egg Green ). It has been used as an engine colour by the army since about 1950.

[ruxy]

I used to buy paint amongst other things at the Catterick Misc. Auctions , to get what I was after (on a pallet load) - I had to take all sorts inc. sufficient blackboard paint for several schools, aluminium wood primer (it was good stuff) etc. etc.
I did get the odd can of SKY Blue and have preached for years it is the correct colour , despite all the stuff being sold as Duck egg green. However to most peoples eyes (inc. mine) it does have more of a green cast than blue and this seems to be the reason DEG seems to have taken hold. However things are not so simple - The RAF had to use a new name of SKY blue for a existing "patented" colour called Camotint , the history of this is well established and accounted for on the internet. Camotint is SKY.

eg

Second World War

Appointed as a Squadron Leader and honorary Wing Commander on 22 September 1939, in the same period, Cotton was recruited to head up the fledgling RAF 1 Photographic Development Unit (PDU) at Heston Aerodrome. This unit provided important intelligence leading to successful air raids on key enemy installations.

With his experience and knowledge gained over Germany and other overflights, Cotton greatly improved the RAF's photo reconnaissance capabilities. The PDU was originally equipped with Bristol Blenheims, but Cotton considered these quite unsuitable, being far too slow, and he consequently "wheedled" a couple of Supermarine Spitfires. These Spitfires, later augmented by de Havilland Mosquitos, were steadily adapted to fly higher and faster, with a highly-polished surface, a special blue camouflage scheme developed by Cotton himself, and a series of modifications to the engines to produce more power at high altitudes. In 1940, Cotton also personally made another important reconnaissance flight with his Lockheed Electra Junior over Azerbaijan via Iraq.

etc.

Lucas' research, matching paint samples from various preserved aircraft bits, provides convincing evidence for six shades being used on BoB-period aircraft.
1) Sky Grey - light grey
2) Sky - the light grey-green Camotint-inspired shade
3) Sky Blue - light powder blue
4) BS381(1930) No.16 Eau-de-Nil - pale green (Duck-egg Green?)
5) BS381(1930) No.1 Sky Blue - aquamarine blue (Duck-egg Blue?)
6) an unidentified light blue-grey seen on some Gloster-built Hurricanes.

Apart from the last, all of these would have been available in the supply chain, and if Sky wasn't available, the Squadrons would have used the next nearest shade they could get their hands on. Even photographs aren't going to help you decide which shade to use - much research, using recent publications, is indicated. I think many older publications may have gone with the official Air Ministry line (Sky, Type S).

Aero modellers have had their knickers in a twist over this for many years now , me - - I just get a quality machine enamel mixed up by the 1 litre when I run out.

[Rover8FFR]

The more old paint I uncover on casings I am begining to think the colour is Eau-de-Nil BS216.

It is definately grey with a hint of 'green'!

Does anyone agree with me?

[ruxy]

It is the same as they all are from the Solihull factory from about early S2A - nobody knows for certain - a bit like MOWOG paint or is it MoWoG paint .

[Richard Farrant]

The more old paint I uncover on casings I am begining to think the colour is Eau-de-Nil BS216.

It is definately grey with a hint of 'green'!

Does anyone agree with me?

That is the colour of the cast iron castings, all alloy parts were natural, and pressed steel parts such as filler tube, sump, etc were black. this was how they left Solihull. It was not a particular good paint covering, more like a primer and done before castings were machined, so bare patches where milled. Think I might have written this before

[ruxy]

Exactly - could even be what is known as a holding primer as it has hardly any gloss (most primers would have sufficient heat resistance - the hot stat is only 82 centigrade). The factory were not bothered about coating machined casting surfaces - traditional oil leaks took care of that A pukka machinery enamel is normally OK for direct to ferrous metal without primer. I doubt if the odd boil up would discolour either type of paint , some ancient NOS parts in packaging are probably the best guide. IMHO it is somewhere between Eau-de-Nil & SKY - but it is splitting hairs.