Matilda on Rainham Marshes

Does anyone know what happened to the MK2 Matilda that was on Rainham Marshes in Essex?

It featured on an 'After the Battle' postcard and I wrote to the editor, Winston Ramsey, asking where it was exactly. A hand drawn map provided the answer and, as a spotty teenager, I persuaded my mother that it was the place to visit!

This was the late 70s / early 80s and I was amazed how complete the Matilda was - engine fan belts still in place! I lost custody of the photos years ago, but I'd love to know what happend to the tank - surely someone saved it!

Peter

Ferret MK 2/3, 03 CC 42

Does anyone know what happened to the MK2 Matilda that was on Rainham Marshes in Essex?

 

This was the late 70s / early 80s and I was amazed how complete the Matilda was - engine fan belts still in place!

 

Peter,

I knew of one Matilda II that I think came from Rainham Marshes, it had been a range target with minor damage to one side. It definitely went for preservation, but as to where, I forget now, it was last seen by me in Sussex in the very early 80's. Knowing the photo you refer to, it could well be the same one.

It went to a dealer/collecter in Sussex, I suspect it's where Richard is thinking along with two Rams. One Ram is now in Scotland and the other went to Holland but I think may now be in Canada.

I'm not sure where the Matilda went, it was still in Sussex in the early 90's.

Peter,

I do not know about the Matilda, but there was a Ram Kangaroo on that range as well. I understand the tanks were standing behind a rifle range. The story goes they were removed by a private person after he persuaded the MoD those tanks presented a danger as they attracted boys like you and there was a risk of people getting hurt if they military were using the rifle range.

The Ram Kangaroo was later sold to a collector in the UK. So that one at least is preserved, though it is awaiting restoration.

Hanno

Hi Adrian,

Our postings crossed. The second one went from the UK dealer/collector to a Dutch dealer/collector to a Belgium dealer/collector, who traded it to the Canadian War Museum. This one is also awaiting restoration.

See my web page http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/kangaroo.htm for a picture (second from the top) while it was still on the range.

Hanno

It went to a dealer/collecter in Sussex, I suspect it's where Richard is thinking along with two Rams. One Ram is now in Scotland and the other went to Holland but I think may now be in Canada.

 

I'm not sure where the Matilda went, it was still in Sussex in the early 90's.

Hi Adrian,

That is correct, there was at least one Ram at this place, that I recollect. I did think the Matilda was gone by then, I am a frequent visitor to the location. Something in my mind tells me the Matilda was sold to a certain person and it was restored as a gate guardian for the Army, unless I am mixing it with another one.

You may well be right Richard, I've only been to Bills once in 93 I think. I feel I saw it there but thinking about it, it may have been Bovvy in the late 80's.

You may well be right Richard, I've only been to Bills once in 93 I think. I feel I saw it there but thinking about it, it may have been Bovvy in the late 80's.

I think Richard is correct. I visited once in 1993 and by then this Ram Kangaroo was the only tank on the premises.

H.

Veering off topic slightly here - Rainham ranges were an interesting place - anyone remember the window cleaner killed in Rainham village back in the Seventies??

Not through being actually shot but from falling off his ladder in surprise after being hit by a spent 7.62 round from the ranges........ Nothing to do with any unit I was in I hasten to add - but it was part of the range safety briefings from the early/mid seventies on - apparently some one had taken a pot shot at a bird sitting on the top of a distant butt......

Richard Farrant

I knew of one Matilda II that I think came from Rainham Marshes, it had been a range target with minor damage to one side.

I may be wrong but if I'm thinking of the same Matilda the condition of the Tracks/suspension was badly corroded and worse still the EOD burnt ordnance remains inside it during the closing down of the range. I'm sure it was at Bovington for a while about 1991.

Steve

Veering off topic slightly here - Rainham ranges were an interesting place - anyone remember the window cleaner killed in Rainham village back in the Seventies??

I got the same range safety talk in about 1999, I assumed it was an urban myth!

Stone

mcspool

.....tanks presented a danger as they attracted boys like you and there was a risk of people getting hurt if they military were using the rifle range.

 

 

Hi Hanno

Wasn't the Gravesend Ram (the one that had its back-end cut off to get the motor) in the overshoot of a rifle range?

Steve

That was my next 'After the Battle' related question!

The magazine gave the precise location of the Sherman in a crater at Shornmead Fort near Gravesend (I visited it as soon as one of my mates had a car!), confident that, unlike other relics, it would never move........

Any leads on this one?!

Peter

Ferret MK 2/3, 03 CC 42

Peter4456

The magazine gave the precise location of the Sherman in a crater at Shornmead Fort near Gravesend

 

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the Ram Kangaroo not a Sherman, it went to a well known collector in Kent in about 1993, don't know if they still have it or whether it was traded on.

Steve

I got the same range safety talk in about 1999, I assumed it was an urban myth!

 

Stone

Apparently not....One month it never featured in the range safety talk, couple of months later it did... Must have been a millions to one chance of it happening though....... :shake:

I knew I had that post card somewhere

Nice pic, I wonder if the pic has a green wash enhancement, otherwise that amount of green could possibly it was once a gateguard- painted regularly.

Matildas were supposed to have survived into Post War training does anyone have any knowledge of this- I would have thought there was better training vehicles and too light as a recovery hulk or RASC load.

Steve

Nice pic, I wonder if the pic has a green wash enhancement, otherwise that amount of green could possibly it was once a gateguard- painted regularly.

 

Matildas were supposed to have survived into Post War training does anyone have any knowledge of this- I would have thought there was better training vehicles and too light as a recovery hulk or RASC load.

 

 

If that is the same one I came across later in Sussex, then I don't think it had been repainted as the wartime census number was still visible.

Wasn't the Gravesend Ram (the one that had its back-end cut off to get the motor) in the overshoot of a rifle range?

Hi Steve,

No idea, all I ever saw was the picture in ATB magazine.

Hanno

Richard Farrant

I don't think it had been repainted as the wartime census number was still visible.

the post-card photo almost looks almost bronze green as opposed to "standard range rotten red iron and faded olive" colours of most targets (see Ram photo on same range) hence my thought that it was either a enhanced photo or it had not been on the range for expected 30+years. Was the Matilda you saw that deep a colour.

It is even possible that the Matilda had been a gateguard at this range, many training areas have had gateguards which often get lost when a new commander arrives. for example there was a Conqueror at Catterick, which disappeared -possibly up the road to Warcop.

Steve

the post-card photo almost looks almost bronze green as opposed to "standard range rotten red iron and faded olive" colours of most targets (see Ram photo on same range) hence my thought that it was either a enhanced photo or it had not been on the range for expected 30+years. Was the Matilda you saw that deep a colour.

 

Steve,

If it is the same one, I thought it was lighter than that, but the colours of the photo do not seem right, everything is a bit too green. As you say, it looks to be enhanced. When I first saw it was coming up to 30 years ago, memory not that clear.

mcspool

No idea,

Hi Hanno

It was a rhetorical question- I shouldn't be such a prat.

When I went there on a Sunday access was not curtailed due to firing, but I could make the wreck out with binos. I waited until the afternoon when the red flag was dropped,then it was strange guys in T shirts or leather jackets with agressive dogs probably involved in some form of illegal activity like dog fighting who made it plain strangers were not welcome on their playground, so I never did see the Ram or whether anything else was on the range.

Steve

AAH THE MEMORIES!!!

It's years since I've seen that photo, which I stuck in the long since lost file with a few black & white photos from our visit. I'm sure it's really 70s Photo Shop green, but my memory is that Matilda had indeed weathered to the dark colour shown - it certainly wasn't rusty red!! It didn't look like it had been painted bronze green either.

Have we actually established where it is now? - the last sightings seem to be Sussex and / or Bovington!

Peter,

Ferret 2/3, 03 CC 42

Peter4456

Have we actually established where it is now? - the last sightings seem to be Sussex and / or Bovington!

 

We haven't established where it is now. It has been mentioned that the tank had a T number does anyone have a photo showing it or made a note of it at the time as in the absense of any visible range damage may be the only way to identify the tank.

Of preserved Matildas I think we can disregard the 2 or 3 in Russia and those in Australia on the basis of export to Australia is unlikely considering the number out there.

The Bovington tanks are T10459 (may have originally been T10549 and number jumbled during repainting) and the CDL T7341.

IWM tank is T10245 and like the Bovington tank is supposed to be one that spent it life as a training vehicle.

Saumur is T7418, Yad Shiron is T7412 and Jaques Littlefields is T7415 makes you consider whether these tanks have been repainted and casually numbered as RTR tanks in the desert war. The Belgian tank museum tank is T5734. There is also an unrestored A12 at the Wheatcroft Collection. There is also a possibility that a Matilda refurbished in Kent is at a private museum in Geneva along with a number of restored vehicles including M4A1 Grizzly a Sexton and a IS3m.

Of these vehicles it is possible that the Wheatcroft , Yad Shiron tank or the Geneva tank may be the Rainham tank. It is almost certainly not any of the others as their provenance is known.

Steve

Rex Cadman also has the remains of a Matilda, could that be the one form Rainham Marshes.