WW1 Thornycroft restoration

Now it gets exciting!

"Hold on Roy whilst we get the tie bar fitted!"

Looking good now. A face at last!

We have an interesting problem here. The original low-level water spigot is too low and won't connect to the top casting. I shall have to either make a new one or, possibly, cut and weld this one. That would be a shame but would save me a lot of work. It is cast iron so welding will be a bit of a challenge so I will be seeking advice very shortly.

Father had painted the brake cross-shaft so we fitted that and then went on to start on the linkage.

As you can see, there is a very large gap in the clevis which was originally filled by a 5/8" bore Thackeray washer. Unfortunately, these have proven unobtainable. Dad has found some very short springs but their solid height is just too much. I could turn some spacers but they don't feel right either. Please may I have your thoughts?

Not huge progress this weekend but very significant and quite a milestone for us. It is really beginning to look like a lorry now as all of the major lumps are in. We just have to join them together.

Watch this space!

Steve

We have an interesting problem here. The original low-level water spigot is too low and won't connect to the top casting. I shall have to either make a new one or, possibly, cut and weld this one. That would be a shame but would save me a lot of work. It is cast iron so welding will be a bit of a challenge so I will be seeking advice very shortly.

A pair of these?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/universal-elbows/samco-90-degree-silicone-hose-elbow-2

(available in black, it's not a 100% jocular suggestion)

a brass filler piece can be fitted until a set of nos thackery washers are found. second thought, can they be hand made and tempered to spec so it is as it should?

A pair of these?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/universal-elbows/samco-90-degree-silicone-hose-elbow-2

(available in black, it's not a 100% jocular suggestion)

Well, that would be a solution. I think I will investigate the welding a bit further first....

Thanks Andy!

Steve

a brass filler piece can be fitted until a set of nos thackery washers are found. second thought, can they be hand made and tempered to spec so it is as it should?

I'm sure I could make them if I tried. It is just an awful lot of tooling for eight washers! 5/16" seems to be available for motor cycles. 5/8" must be available somewhere!

Steve

Cutting and brazing that spigot would be a real pity after it had survived a hundred years in one piece.

I'd support the idea of a double 90 degree elbow.

Well, that would be a solution. I think I will investigate the welding a bit further first....

It looks like one flange per pot. Why not make some short bits of tube with a flange on each end to bolt to the head, and then bolt the castings on top of those?

Though I imagine the original was a long sloping pipe? That wouldn't be desperately hard to make from scratch by welding.

Dennis seemed to like to use large-bore copper pipe and brass flanges soldered on.

This is what it should look like.

It is not very different, just enough! I don't really want to cut it but it is a tricky pattern to make. I currently have seventeen patterns to make to finish the job and one less to do has some appeal at the moment.

Steve

Here is an M4 engine fitted into an Alldays and Onions tractor. The spigot has been cut back.

This is our before cleaning and painting. is it a real awkward shape around the flange!

Further thought required.

Steve :-\

I'm no expert but could you not just make two flanged spacer tubes to fit between the top of the block and the bottom of the spigot tube? That way the spigot tube is raised to the height of the radiator inlet without materially damaging it. You would be introducing a couple of more joints into the system but presumably that can be resolved.

(Edit) Oops - I seem to have come up with the same idea as Andy Pugh - if two of us came to that conclusion independently perhaps it's worth a thought

This is our before cleaning and painting. is it a real awkward shape around the flange!

Further thought required.

It does look like one saw-cut, a 180-degree rotation and welding it back together would give you the shape you need.

I think I would be looking to make the saw-cut in 3D CAD first, though.

In fact, I just did (with guessed measurements)

http://www.woodstockindustrial.com/doublecoil.html. do they have what you need?

Why not bend a piece of pipe, or a piece of stainless steel muffler pipe into the desired shape, cut the appropriate size flange , and weld in another piece of pipe at the required point, I would save the original pipe rather than modify it. You could tig weld them together, grind out the welds, and I think it would look like it was made that way. I have enjoyed your progress, and I am always amazed at the high level of craftsmanship exhibited by everyone on this site! Carey

Regarding the "Thackeray washer", have you considered Belleville disc springs or "wave washers" ? These are readily available here, and a company called McMaster-Carr sells these in small quantaties. A carbon steel wave washer with an inside diameter of 0.650" and outside diameter of 0.855" are available in a package of twenty five (25) for $11.37 usd. They have a height of 0.060". It is their part #9714K36. They are also available in stainless steel. I would be glad to help if necessary. Carey

http://www.woodstockindustrial.com/doublecoil.html. do they have what you need?

I think that crushing the 16mm size in a press to put the kink in might get close enough.

The alternative would be to mill them from solid. How many do you need? (I have a mill with a CNC rotary axis)

Just thinking to keep the vehicle as close as it was, therefore I searched 5/8 then 16mm as a option for the Thackeray washer.

Me, I do not need any though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, there is a very large gap in the clevis which was originally filled by a 5/8" bore Thackeray washer. Unfortunately, these have proven unobtainable. Dad has found some very short springs but their solid height is just too much. I could turn some spacers but they don't feel right either. Please may I have your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Hi Steve,

For a 5/8" Thackeray washer, think about engine rocker shafts, they are often used on these. He is one example on a MGA engine;

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/universal/ut129.htm

regards, Richard

Also note the variant and more common spelling "Thackery"

Hi Chaps.

Many thanks for all of your thoughts.

Thanks for the link Carey. I think that the double coil locking washers will be a bit too stiff for this job as they are meant to dig in to the metal to prevent the nut from unscrewing. Might be worth a try though so I will keep that one up my sleeve. Wave washers are the right stiffness but not thick enough! I see that there is such a thing as a wave spring though which seems to be several washers together. Not sure how stiff they would be so they might be worth a try. 16mm bore would be fine as I can always grind a little out if necessary.

The rocker shaft spring is a good suggestion Richard. They would be about the right size too. Just need to find the right car now!

Thanks for the modelling Andy. I think that, after discussions with my welding guru, I will make up the patterns for a new pipe. The plug will be a bit of wood-carving but the core box might be a bit more challenging. It has been suggested that I use 3D printing to produce a male core and then use that to pour a resin mould around it. At least by making a new one, it will be right and I won't spoil a nice original. The only downside is that I will have to store the part! Oh well. I am sure it will find a good home eventually. You just never know.

Many thanks all round!

Steve :cheesy:

It has been suggested that I use 3D printing to produce a male core and then use that to pour a resin mould around it.

A bit of pipe insulation with pipe inside it (and probably parcel tape) would probably make a perfectly adequate core.

Make the plug, make a negative of the plug as the core box with an oversize cavity. Make a core to sit in the plug with spacers, fill in the gap with more resin/expanding foam to shrink the core box cavity.

There are some very interesting techniques here:

I thought there was a very strong resemblance to Steve......

Pattern and core box making? 3D CAD and printing is the solution of course, over and done with before you could go down to B & Q to buy some more MDF!:-D

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?51085-Pattern-Making-(Off-Topic)/page2&highlight=pattern+making

Hi Barry!

Thanks for the reminder of your manifold. What printing process did you use? It has been suggested to me but my pal had problems printing the core boxes and resorted to making a plug each time and then pouring a resin mould around it. It certainly makes the manufacturing easy but the CAD data is more challenging even though I sit in front of a CAD screen all day! I have blokes who can drive it so I am severely out of practice and rely on them to keep me on the straight and narrow. First step, I think, will be to sharpen my pencil and draw the thing. Then I could transfer it into the machine and take it from there. Food for thought.

Steve

Just a thought, but instead of making a whole new casting, you could use it as is and make a 'drop down' adapter from the radiator top tank to get the correct level.

This is a picture of a Vulcan with that sort of set up (not mine unfortunately!) it doesn't show it very well but you get the idea...

http://s938.photobucket.com/user/millington/media/Vulcan/VSW%20Number%2016/Top-11.jpg.html

Apologies, I'm not near my lap top at the moment, and iPhone won't let me post pictures just the link.

This turned up yesterday!

And Father has been rumaging in the garage and found three as well so only three more needed! Thanks for that one Mick!

Thanks for the rocker shaft tip-off Richard. I have been working my way through the MGA parts people and keep coming up with 'No longer available'. This one is a challenge!

Steve

Steve,

Good news, try these people for double coil spring washers;

http://www.springlockwashers.com/washers-for-industrial-use/double-coil-washers/