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WW1 Thornycroft restoration


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Another part of the column is the cast brace which supports the bottom end. This is the one on the Carlton Colville lorry.

 

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Another pattern making job which I started by turning the boss for the end.

 

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Then came the top. It has curved sides which I puzzled over for a while until I spotted some concave moulding which I glued along the edges of some MDF.

 

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Whilst the glue was going off, I cut the boss in half and filled the gap with a piece of plywood. The purpose of the boss is to provide both halves of the clamp in one piece. The plywood made it oval so that when cut in half, there is a machining allowance left.

 

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In the meantime, the edges were extended downwards with further strips of MDF.

 

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The kit of parts is growing.

 

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The 'ears' on the boss were built up on both sides and the exterior of the moulding was planed to a curve to match the interior. Then the flange was attached to the end.

 

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The flange was cut out and the corners dressed to match the interior curves. Some filler was added as well to allow the pattern to be drawn.

 

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The usual two coats of Bondaprime and Father has another one to take to the foundry.

 

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There is still a way to go but we are coming on. Steering wheel finishing, throttle quadrant and throttle levers remain.

 

Steve :)

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Brilliant job guys, it amazes me the ingenuity sometimes of just making the patterns, never mind the build itself!

Always look forward to my 'Thorny Fix', as I'm sure everyone else does.

I've followed this from day one and like a good book, can't put it down.

Well done gents.

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Steve said

 

I had a go but could not get the solder to run. This could have been the solder which, I believe, was of the lead-free persuasion. I don't have much confidence in that either. Can anyone offer any suggestions on using this combination?

 

Just some general information.

 

Most plumbing fluxes now come in two types, potable water and heating systems/general purpose. Potable plumbing solder is lead and cadmium free and uses silver as a replacement which raises the melting point by about 15 dgs. I find that it joints brightly cleaned copper very well but no hope of a good joint when soldering ferrous metal with potable flux. Leaded solder wire 3mm o/d (general purpose) is still available on eBay.

 

Fluxite and Laco are good all round rosin based paste fluxes which works well on ferrous metal and for tinning things like braided vehicle earth straps and big lugs. Rosin solder is not corrosive so works well on electrical joints and PC boards that cannot be washed clean after soldering.

 

Bakers No3 liquid flux is acid based and brilliant for ferrous metals but is not recommended for non-ferrous metals. Note, wash the finished joint in water to remove all traces of acid.

 

I prefer Fluxite but I like to use Bakers for work where it is not possible to get the components as clean as I would like. Fluxite, Laco and Bakers No3 are also available on eBay.

 

My old school metalwork teacher spent some time in the REME in North Africa during WW2 and he said that when they ran out of flux they used Camel Piss; is there a zoo near you?

 

John

Edited by Barney
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Steve said

 

I had a go but could not get the solder to run. This could have been the solder which, I believe, was of the lead-free persuasion. I don't have much confidence in that either. Can anyone offer any suggestions on using this combination?

 

Just some general information.

 

Most plumbing fluxes now come in two types, potable water and heating systems/general purpose. Potable plumbing solder is lead and cadmium free and uses silver as a replacement which raises the melting point by about 15 dgs. I find that it joints brightly cleaned copper very well but no hope of a good joint when soldering ferrous metal with potable flux. Leaded solder wire 3mm o/d (general purpose) is still available on eBay.

 

Fluxite and Laco are good all round rosin based paste fluxes which works well on ferrous metal and for tinning things like braided vehicle earth straps and big lugs. Rosin solder is not corrosive so works well on electrical joints and PC boards that cannot be washed clean after soldering.

 

Bakers No3 liquid flux is acid based and brilliant for ferrous metals but is not recommended for non-ferrous metals. Note, wash the finished joint in water to remove all traces of acid.

 

I prefer Fluxite but I like to use Bakers for work where it is not possible to get the components as clean as I would like. Fluxite, Laco and Bakers No3 are also available on eBay.

 

My old school metalwork teacher spent some time in the REME in North Africa during WW2 and he said that when they ran out of flux they used Camel Piss; is there a zoo near you?

 

John

 

Lovely useful information, John - and thank you!

 

And I enjoyed your last sentence! Plenty of Llamas and Alpacos down this way - would they be any good?

 

Tony

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Thanks for the guidance with modern fluxes, John. I have not yet had any success with the stuff but now that I have a £10- tub of the stuff, I will keep trying!

 

I will have to solder up the fuel tank in due course and I think I will stick to solder paint and Baker's fluid as per the Dennis tank. I know how to make that work!

 

Steve.

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A little while back, Dad picked up the fuel tank sump casting and also the magneto advance control rod support casting. The foundry were not having one of their best days but Father has cleaned it up and then machined the hole through the middle.

 

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Two bolt holes and that this another piece ticked off.

 

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Once the steering column is complete, we can start making the linkage to connect them all together.

 

Steve. :)

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At first sight that is a simple machining job but drilling the holes through the two ends of the casting so they are in line and central to the barrel shaped pieces is actually not simple at all. Presumably it was done from one end with a very long drill but the scope for it wandering is huge. I am really not sure how I would have tackled it. How did you do it?

 

David

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At first sight that is a simple machining job but drilling the holes through the two ends of the casting so they are in line and central to the barrel shaped pieces is actually not simple at all. Presumably it was done from one end with a very long drill but the scope for it wandering is huge. I am really not sure how I would have tackled it. How did you do it?

 

David

 

 

Quite right David - not as straight forward as you might think to get accuracy! I skimmed and squared the bottom of the casting with the inside bottom bolting face so that I had two true faces to work from. No way could I accurately drill right through from one end to the other with one long drill - which I did not have in any case, as that would have wandered. So centres for the holes in each end were marked off with a Height Gauge, working from the two machined true faces - and then each just drilled through separately from their separate ends and reamed. It seemed to work!

 

Tony

Edited by Minesweeper
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Readers may remember, from post 1470, that we made up a pattern for the steering wheel muchearlier that we needed it so thatwe could get three castings made, one for Dan's Halley, one for the Coventry Maudslay and one for ourselves. I machined the bores early on by bolting the wheels to the faceplate of the Colchester.

 

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Unusually, I didn't take any pictures of that process. However, all went well except that the gap bed on the lathe was not big enough to take the wheel when reversed so we had to face the other sides in the mill. Unfortunately, even then, as you can see, my mill wasn't big enough and it was done in yet another friend's machine. Where would we be without our friends?

 

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Since then, the wheel has been sitting on my bookcase but the time has come to get on with finishing it off. First job was to run the ends of the spokes into the hub. This was done with the aid of the trusty Dremel pencil grinder and files and emery.

 

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Then Dad took on the thankless task of working the whole casting to a good finish. This was very long winded and tedious but Dad removed the bulk of it. with a power file and emery.

 

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I then took the thing in hand and went over the whole surface again with finer emery and needle files to pick up any oddments that had been missed, another 20 hours of work. Finally, it is ready for the powder coater's.

 

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Originally, it would have been coated in a layer of celluloid all over but we found on the Dennis that a thick glossy powder coat produces a quite acceptable effect at a tenth of the cost. Dad will get that in hand this week while we press on with the rest of the steering column.

 

Steve :)

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I am glad I read this far before replying, I was about to suggest the same thing.

 

Air will slightly expand the part and provide a nice air-bearing effect. But grease might be less exciting.

 

My recent attempts at metal spinning have produced a lot of scrap:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LBoi5b4CsBt_EFhiK0EPftMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

But also some usable parts:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JqMiezKZO-Cwmt1JMMShgdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

(The Ner-a-Car has one acetylene light and one new-fangled electric one)

 

****

 

I can across serious spinning of metal just WAUUUWWWW, check it out

 

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I am glad I read this far before replying, I was about to suggest the same thing.

 

Air will slightly expand the part and provide a nice air-bearing effect. But grease might be less exciting.

 

My recent attempts at metal spinning have produced a lot of scrap:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LBoi5b4CsBt_EFhiK0EPftMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

But also some usable parts:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JqMiezKZO-Cwmt1JMMShgdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

 

(The Ner-a-Car has one acetylene light and one new-fangled electric one)

 

 

 

i can across this video on mega metal spinning you have to see it really WAUUUWW!!

 

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Spectacular pieces of spinning. One needs to have some confidence to stand so close to a disc going that fast!

 

I have just been looking back through the postings and have realised that I have already posted about the steering wheel last December. Sorry about that. That is what happens when so many things are going on concurrently! Anyway, Dad has taken it for powder coating today.

 

In the meantime, we have been looking at the clutch brake assembly. This is a leather faced frame which contacts the back of the clutch when the pedal is fully depressed to slow the clutch and allow faster upward gear changes. First job was to find a piece of leather. This came, courtesy of Ebay, from Sri Lanka and is claimed to be 'Buffalo Hide'.

 

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I cut a ring out of it using scissors and a Stanley knife.

 

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Then I had to make some shallow countersunk rivets as we didn't have any. I simply drilled a piece of steel and then lightly countersunk it with a large drill.

 

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Place the rivet in the hole.

 

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Thump it home with the hammer.

 

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and face off the head to suit.

 

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Rivets secured in the normal way.

 

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And the brake frame was temporarily fitted. It will need setting up once the coupling and clutch is completed but for the time being, that is another job done.

 

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Father has picked up the steering column support bracket from the foundry this week.

 

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Once he has finished the fuel filler cap, that will be the next project.

 

Steve :)

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isn't that the most bizarre thing? This sort of weird contraption is why I love this era of motor manufacturing so much, they really had no idea :-)

 

I wonder how that will smell during gear-changes?

 

Medium Rare to well done depending on the braking!!

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isn't that the most bizarre thing? This sort of weird contraption is why I love this era of motor manufacturing so much, they really had no idea :-)

 

I wonder how that will smell during gear-changes?

 

I would say a brilliantly simple idea that gets around the problem of slowing the heavy input side of gear train to the correct speed for easy up shifts in the days before syncromesh gearboxes became common. A similar system was still in use in heavy commercial trucks and tractors with heavy gearboxes right up til 60 years later.

It does of course rely on some driver skill. Upshifts require the clutch to be depressed further to engage the clutch brake just enough to slow the input shaft and gear train speed to match the reduced engine revs. Down shifts require a shorter press of the clutch pedal to make sure that brake doesn't engage the gear train is not slowed and maybe a slight blip on the throttle.

Someone without the correct skill could quickly burn up the clutch brake my holding the clutch down too far on down changes and effectively trying to slow the vehicle on the tiny brake band.

The introduction of synchromesh gearboxes of course meant that anyone could drive with lesser skill level required.

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I would say a brilliantly simple idea that gets around the problem of slowing the heavy input side of gear train to the correct speed for easy up shifts in the days before syncromesh gearboxes became common.

 

Oh, I know _exactly_ what it is for, but it is such a weird contraption compared with the ones used by Dennis.

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Yes Andy. I would definitely consider that Dennis vehicles are more refined than Thornycroft which are in the more 'agricultural' league. They still seemed to work though. I hope ours does!

 

On that front, we are still doing things but, in our usual manner, several things at once. The current major items are the steering column and linkage, the clutch installation and the fuel tank. I try to make a post when there is something to see but sometimes, they seem very far apart. I just can't keep up with dynamo Hawkins! Never mind. Here is another installment.

 

We are fortunate to have the remains of an original fuel tank. Unfortunately, we have deemed it beyond repair so we are making up a replacement.

 

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A while back, I reported the manufacture of the new sump and clean up of a fuel tap found at Beaulieu Autojumble so these were the first two components.

 

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Many years ago, I made up a pattern for the fuel filler cap. This was only my second pattern and I was not very generous with the outside diameter.

 

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Dad inspected the castings and reckoned that he could use them.

 

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Before he started to machine them, we decided to salvage the filler neck from the old tank so that he could try it it in the new thread as he went.

 

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I cut it out with the disc cutter and Father cleaned it up before dismantling it.

 

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He took the rivet heads off the back and then punched them out whilst the solder was warm.

 

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A good wire brushing left us with a sound filler neck and also a doubler plate for inside the tank that we can re-use.

 

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The cap was a nice turning job in the Colchester.

 

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A bit of porosity but nothing to worry about.

 

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The internal thread was screw-cut at 6tpi. This is the coarsest we have ever done and setting up the machine caused us some head scratching. All went well in the end.

 

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The cap is ready for knurling around the rim. That one might be a bit of fun as I have always found the process a bit hit-and-miss. We shall see.

 

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Now, the top and bottom of the tank are done so time to think about the ends. The end plates are rivetes in with the flanges facing out and then have filler plates sweated on top. I can't see why as it is only a cosmetic thing and seems a bit of a waste in war time. There are also two baffles in the middle. I drew them out and another pal put them onto CAD and ordered the blanks up from a laser cutter. In the back left of the photo, you can also see some pieces of 12mm plate that we had cut out for use as flanging blocks.

 

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First job was to prepare the flanging blocks by breaking the corners of the block to be used on the inside. This allows a much better bend of the end plate and removes a stress concentrator. This was done by the use of a flap wheel in the angle grinder and took very little time.

 

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hi steve, i'm watching your tank making with great interest, ive started to remake the tank for the A10, I have used the method of cutting a slice into the end of an old punch to fold the end plates and baffles, it takes a bit of time as you only fold a small amount at a time and the tighter corners end up with a bit of excess which then need to be hit with a hammer and dollie, I done the mod 24 one like this and it came out ok, are you going to use silver solder ? or soft solder ?

cheers mike.

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