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WW1 Thornycroft restoration


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Ah yes! Araldite, the Greek goddess of adhesives. :-) I recently heard a rumour that Araldite had been bought by EvoStick and the name was gone, but sedulous internet research proved the rumour to be unfounded.

 

Araldite metal loaded epoxy changed a while ago, most likely due to elf and safe tea banning an ingredient, while the price increased significantly. I can't recall exactly why now but it seemed inferior for the application too.

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Years ago (1980s) a fellow tradie warned me to be very careful of Araldite, avoid skin contact, but especially avoid breathing its vapour. I do not know where he got his information from, but he said that one of the components was very nasty.

 

I do know that when the "5 minute" stuff came out, it had a very sharp odour compared to normal Araldite and made me think

that it must be worse health wise.

 

I haven't had the need to use either in a long time, so cannot comment about the properties of the current products.

 

IIRC the legend goes that it was developed in order to solve the problem of the Mosquitos de-bonding in the tropics as your

British timber glues were not able to handle high heat and humidity.

 

Regards

Doug

 

 

Araldite metal loaded epoxy changed a while ago, most likely due to elf and safe tea banning an ingredient, while the price increased significantly. I can't recall exactly why now but it seemed inferior for the application too.
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Note: Mosquito Aircraft de-bonding. The original wood glue I believe was Cascamite, My Farther used a lot of that, a white powder mixed with water, the trade mark was two carthorses straining on chains to pull a wooden sphere in half.

 

Quick check, you can stil get Cascamite--http://www.axminster.co.uk/cascamite-powdered-resin-wood-glue-ax21688

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Note: Mosquito Aircraft de-bonding. The original wood glue I believe was Cascamite, My Farther used a lot of that, a white powder mixed with water, the trade mark was two carthorses straining on chains to pull a wooden sphere in half.

 

Quick check, you can stil get Cascamite--http://www.axminster.co.uk/cascamite-powdered-resin-wood-glue-ax21688

 

The wood bows to support the canvas over the back of our Dennis - also the cab roof bows of the Dennis and the cab roof bows of the Thorny were all made of laminated Ash strips. The strips were glued together with Cascamite - strongly advocated by our good friend, big Mark the carpenter and before him, his late father Gordon who was also a highly skilled carpenter. It has been easy to use and has shown no sign ever of giving up.

 

Tony

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Tony,

 

You will be fine as long as you don't get the urge to drive it to Singapore!

 

Regards

Doug

 

 

The wood bows to support the canvas over the back of our Dennis - also the cab roof bows of the Dennis and the cab roof bows of the Thorny were all made of laminated Ash strips. The strips were glued together with Cascamite - strongly advocated by our good friend, big Mark the carpenter and before him, his late father Gordon who was also a highly skilled carpenter. It has been easy to use and has shown no sign ever of giving up.

 

Tony

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<SNIP>

 

IIRC the legend goes that it was developed in order to solve the problem of the Mosquitos de-bonding in the tropics as your

British timber glues were not able to handle high heat and humidity.

 

Regards

Doug[/quote

 

Araldite is not great for wood. The improved glue (Urea formaldehyde) for Mosqiutos was Aerolite. Aerodux (phenol) is also used on modern wooden aircraft. Various grades of Araldite are used on metal and composite aircraft structures.

 

Robert G8RPI

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Robert

 

Thanks for correction.

 

Are you aware of any health concerns with Araldite?

 

Anything containing formaldehyde I would personally avoid.

 

Regards

Doug

 

 

<SNIP>

 

IIRC the legend goes that it was developed in order to solve the problem of the Mosquitos de-bonding in the tropics as your

British timber glues were not able to handle high heat and humidity.

 

Regards

Doug[/quote

 

Araldite is not great for wood. The improved glue (Urea formaldehyde) for Mosqiutos was Aerolite. Aerodux (phenol) is also used on modern wooden aircraft. Various grades of Araldite are used on metal and composite aircraft structures.

 

Robert G8RPI

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Robert

 

Thanks for correction.

 

Are you aware of any health concerns with Araldite?

 

Anything containing formaldehyde I would personally avoid.

 

Regards

Doug

 

For the sort of use we have, just normal precautions for chemicals. It's when people are using chemicals for hours every work day that the real problems arise. A lot of household chemicals would not be acceptable for industrial use. At a former workplace a customer sent us a sample of liquid paraffin to see if our dispenser design could handle it. The H&S department reviewed ths MSDS and said we could not have it in the workshop. I asked If I could use baby oil instead and they had no problem with that. They could not grasp that they were the same thing. We are getting way off topic so lets stop.

 

G8RPI.

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Well, I have just had the great good fortune to have two weeks off and some of that time has been devoed to assembling the fuel tank. First job was to strip it down so this is what a fuel tank kit looks like.

 

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Then it was a case of tinning all the joints. This was done using 'Solder Paint', a most wonderful concoction of solder powder and Baker's fluid. It is fiendishly expensive but does such a good job that it is worth every penny. Just paint it on and heat it up until the solder melts and runs over the surface. Easy!

 

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With all the contact surfaces tinned, the tank was then riveted up. First part of that process was to make a rivet snap capable of supporting the rivet heads inside the tank. We made that up by strapping a piece of 4" x 1/2" strip to the anvil and then turning up the snap itself which was dropped into a hole in the end.

 

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The wrapper was temporarily held together with the Clecos and the rivets were inserted and knocked down finishing off with another snap to form the head.

 

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The baffles were inserted and secured with the Clecos before fixing them with rivets.

 

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Passing visitors also get dragged in to hold the tank!

 

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All done and ready for soldering.

 

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I wanted to add some solder to the baffles before fitting the ends so that I could see what I was doing. The tinning made the job easy and it was just a case of warming it up and feeding some more solder.

 

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Now it was a case of de-rusting the ends and fitting them into the tank. The soft solder flux is amazingly corrosive and the rust just arrived overnight.

 

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This time, we could use Mr Pugh's rivet squeezer which was much quicker than knocking them down. Many thanks, Andy.

 

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Tim got quite into it!

 

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Once all the rivets were down, it was just a case of warming up the joints and adding a bit of solder. Actually, I might have got a bit keen with the solder as there are definitely some globules inside which rattle. I will have to make the effort to shake them out.

 

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Remove the rust from the ends again, paint the joint with Baker's fluid and then warm up as before.

 

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The moment of truth!

 

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A leak! One of three at each end and three on the top seam. These were quickly re-run awith a bit more solder and the tank left on end for a while, full to the filler neck.

 

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Turn it over and check the other end.

 

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Success! A trial fit was then felt in order.

 

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We are rather pleased with the general effect. It seems to fit anyway! Now we have to solder on the end double skins without upsetting the joints and fit the tank straps. Then it will be ready for painting and we are on to the next task.

 

This tank has been quite a challenge and I must thank everyone who has helped in the process. We could not have done it without you!

 

Steve :)

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After the discussion on Cleco's or skin pins for holding to be riveted sections together, I thought you might be interested in these gadgets. Mate of mine uses these ones on his restoration to hold thin sheet metal together for butt welding.

 

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ddd.jpg

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Whataretheywherecanigetthem

Whataretheywherecanigetthem

Whataretheywherecanigetthem

Whataretheywherecanigetthem

Whataretheywherecanigetthem

Machine Mart used to do them. They used to do 5 small ones in a pack but now ONLY FOUR!!>:(

I looked a couple of weeks ago but they are a lot bigger now than the smaller original ones. Either eBay or make your own, they basic box with a slit one side and hole the other. Thin plate with bit of M6 stud and screw one side and a bit of stud welded across other side.

Might make a few after work later now you reminded me.

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unlike face book cant press like . SO like like like the whole restoration great stuff

 

Glad you are enjoying it. It is the only reason for doing it! Well, that and all the help everyone so kindly offers.

 

Thanks for the tip-off over the butt-welding clamps, chaps. I have never seen those either but now I know to look for them when I need them! What is on the underside of them?

 

Steve :)

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Thanks for the tip-off over the butt-welding clamps, chaps. I have never seen those either but now I know to look for them when I need them! What is on the underside of them?

 

Steve :)

 

I got mine in packs of five from Frosts Auto Restoration. Their website has a video showing the clamps in detail and how to use them. I think they are still the small ones, unlike Machine Marts

Edited by simon king
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After visiting the Great Dorset with the family, I took the opportunity to finish the fuel tank. Unfortunately, I left all of the photos in Devon so it will be a day or two until the postman catches up with them In the meantime, I also turned up a spacer and fitted the fuel filter so that is one more piece off my bookcase!

 

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Steve :)

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I have, at last, got the latest pictures!

 

The last task on the tank was to fit the double skins on the ends. Unfortunately, the tank has rusted at a phenomenal rate so the first task was another wire brushing.

 

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The outer skin is a laser cut profile which fits on the edge of the flange on the inner skin. Of course, this had a fillet of solder which had to be scraped out by hand, a very tedious exercise.

 

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Much to my amazement the profile simply pushed in with no adjustment which was a very pleasing result.

 

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The joint was painted with Baker's Fluid and then gently warmed up with the torch and some electrician's solder run in. This had a lower melting point than used previously and I hoped not to disturb the previous joint.

 

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The edge was dressed flush using a flap wheel in the angle grinder and we are very pleased with the result.

 

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A wipe over with some thinners and Dad started on the first coat of Bondaprime. We wanted to get this on quickly due to the speed with which the tank was corroding.

 

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Once the coat was dry, we put the tank back up in order to bend the straps to shape and drill the ends for rivets.

 

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Ready for paint.

 

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Unfortunately, it appears that I didn't clean the tank sufficiently well and the second coat is having a problem so Dad is currently struggling with that.

 

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I have ticked the tank off the list. Silencer end patterns to complete next!

 

Steve :)

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