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Proposed Controls on deactivated firearms


beleraphon

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Please be aware that the government have published a consultation paper on the future of deactivated weapons here:

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-2009-deactivated-firearms

 

It is important that you download the document,read it and submit a reply, as the more people who make their views felt, the better chance we have of achieving the desired result.I forewarn you that it is BORING.

The consultation ends on 25th MAY 2009 so please act now!

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Read it earlier & nothing too worrying there, seems quite sensible (not refering to the stats, they're just barking) don't think they will go down the route of requiring all pre 95 deacs to be converted to new spec as that would cost too much & would be hard to implement

 

 

 

 

But I must stress that we want to act proportionately, without interfering unduly with the legitimate collection and use of deactivated firearms.

 

 

 

The Government is therefore seeking an effective but proportionate response to the problem. It is not proposing to introduce a licensing regime for deactivated guns because of the bureaucratic burden this would place on the police; neither is it proposing to deprive existing owners of the deactivated guns they already possess.

 

Please remember this is a discussion about the proposed legislation & not about the Government..

Edited by Marmite!!
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I notice there are no military vehicle associations/clubs listed in annex C (Organisations Consulted).

Most of the "hobby" organisations covered would seem to cover older firearms, many of which would be muzzle loaded/black powder.

 

Hopefully enough people from the MV hobby will put forward well thought out and sensible comments to support our hobby and keep it in the good light that it should be portrayed.

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Please be aware that the government have published a consultation paper on the future of deactivated weapons here:

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/cons-2009-deactivated-firearms

 

It is important that you download the document,read it and submit a reply, as the more people who make their views felt, the better chance we have of achieving the desired result.I forewarn you that it is BORING.

The consultation ends on 25th MAY 2009 so please act now!

 

Wasn't exactly announced with a fanfare was it??? :-(

 

Some of the proposals are what have been mooted here in past discussions so there maybe hope yet. I will take the time to compose a suitable personal reply and then see how things go.

 

I have to admit though - the last page cracked me up - they seriously asked whether it would impinge on the grounds of Race, Disability or Gender rights!!! :??? :???

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
Well - I submitted a reply to this as promised. The item is in the attached MS Word document. Whether they will listen, whether it will do any good in the current political climate gawd only knows but at least I've tried. :)

 

Neil, A very well put reponse. If I may add a note or two?

The word 'Crook' could have been replaced with the word CRIMINAL.

That is what these people are who abuse Firearms.

It might have been worth mentioning the fact that Criminals take no notice of the Law. That is why they are termed Criminals! Further restrictions will only further penalise the Law abiding user / collector.

Also, it will as you say, have NO effect on Armed crime. Criminals find it easier to hire from a pool of illegal live weapons for thier shady activities.

They can source from thier own kind. The police already know this, but, also feel that if there are NO guns of any kind (Especialy De-Acts & Toys) then the Gun 'Problem' will disapear! This is total rubbish as we all know, but what they would LIKE to see done. I have actually had a Police officer see at a catalouge of De-Acts & other Military collectables at my home & state: ' What! you can actually buy these things by mail!'. Such is the ignornace of Law enforcers in 'certain' areas!

 

I have it on impecable authority that there has beeen a meeting of the authorities at the Proof houses & ACPO & Goverment reps to discuss further 'Tightening up' of De-Act standards.

This is what is Proposed: All further submissons for certification in future,for inistial deactivations CANNOT have smooth bored unpluged barrels. The new spec will have a rod welded in the barrel only & smoothboring will NOT be an option.

All generic types will now have to be new spec IE: Welded up.

For example: AK47 series have to be welded up. But lmg variants, RPK Etc with the AK action that are classed as LMG types with a bipod. Will ALSO then have to be welded up. Inclusive examples are, H&K G3 series with bipod. FN FAL Heavy barrel, SA80 =LSW (Shame as these are now worth into the thousands of pounds!) Etc, this small list is not exhustive. but the guide will be: If there is an Rifle version, then the LMG version will also have to be welded up. this will NOT affect LMG series types made from the start. IE: Bren, MG 34/ 42 GPMG, Degtyrev, Etc, Etc. You get the picture.

It is felt, there is little to be done further than this to tighten controls other than welding up EVERY single type of weapon further submitted. They DO NOT want to do that (At the moment!) = (My note)

No changes to vehicle main armamant as this class of arm has NOT been abused to thier knowledge.

All this will take time to go through. Approx 8-12 months, but i have absolutely NO doubt it will be passed. The Proof master at the London Proof house is actually on OUR side & sympathises with our cause & collecting Hobby. BUT, he has had pressure put on to do SOMETHING to tighten things. As the Government (Yet again!) has said they must be seen to do SOMETHING in the light of certain areas of Public pressure. :-(

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)

Must be seen to do something is the key phrase.so why not enforce the allready adaquate laws we have.Tell you what why dont we blame it all on drugs,poor things

they need help,all stems from a poor upbringing you know,single parent,father never worked,blah,blah,blah.Give over its all to late,Bring back the CAT.As my weapons are part of my display and i dont have a particular passion as a collector my gripe is,its just a little more chipped off the freedom banner.a bit more control,now forgive me if i am out of touch but i thought the control was suposed to be in our hands as the powers to be of any democracy are suposed to represent us.As Niel said,the two leading powers in the movement are not invited to the discussions.What they should be discussing is how to use the laws we have to impact on the problem

Simples,

Start using them.

What dear,yes dear,coming dear.got to clean the bathroom.:-D

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Catweazle? Have you changed your name to Poby? (Those of a certain age will get it) Your right mate it has been the law since damn near the dark ages, use anything in the course of a crime to make people think it is a firearm, and you have commited a firearms offence! Including a finger in the pocket!!

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Must be seen to do something is the key phrase.so why not enforce the allready adaquate laws we have.Tell you what why dont we blame it all on drugs,poor things

they need help,all stems from a poor upbringing you know,single parent,father never worked,blah,blah,blah.Give over its all to late,Bring back the CAT.As my weapons are part of my display and i dont have a particular passion as a collector my gripe is,its just a little more chipped off the freedom banner.a bit more control,now forgive me if i am out of touch but i thought the control was suposed to be in our hands as the powers to be of any democracy are suposed to represent us.As Niel said,the two leading powers in the movement are not invited to the discussions.What they should be discussing is how to use the laws we have to impact on the problem

Simples,

Start using them.

What dear,yes dear,coming dear.got to clean the bathroom.:-D

 

John, That was EXACTLY what was qouted to me! 'Must be seen to do SOMETHING!' I was a Police Officer in the Met when I left Regular Army Service. I can assure you I dont have much faith in the Police! They want stricter laws because they cannot enforce the ones already in place! This is partly due to lack of resources, IE: Manpower reductions & deployment on what is deemed 'More important Offences'. The drug problem is a everlasting battle for them. I do feel sympathy in that area. It would seem no matter how many busts are executed. They never seem to stem the flow. All the time there is big money in drugs, you will always find someone ready to take the risk to make BIG money! We as collectors are not a problem, as we all know. BUT, because of the abuse of Firearms by the minority, the majority have to suffer. I have been qouted, we know that a lot of collectors will be penalised in this field. But, we have to do SOMETHING to keep the public safe!' They dont really give a s*** about us or our feelings. I reitterate: 'If they reduce / ban any type of Firearm at all, they belive they wont have a problem in that area /Field'! My own view after some research is the Goverment (Including previous ones) has NEVER liked private Firearm ownership. I also belive that they have / had a fear (Although would NEVER admit it!) that the way goverments proceed in passing laws /Restricting OUR freedoms / Subjugating the masses. They are of the belife that one day the public MAY rise up against them in a 'We have had ENOUGH' stance. This would in MY view, never happen in our lifetime. Because, the VAST majority of collectors/ shooters are indeed LAW ABIDING citizens!! We may moan, complain against genuine injustice. But I do not belive that we would be foolish enough to retailate against the Goverment / law enforcement with Firearms. The vetting proceedure for a F.A.C is difficult enough to acquire a licence in the first place. This weeds the type of law abiding person as suitable in the firsts instance. You CANNOT legislate for someone going mad (If we did we would have no MP's ! = MY JOKE) so that system is limited. But I digress! A legally & PROPERLY De-activated Weapon is harmless. Law enforcement of existing regulations should be quite sufficient. BUT, the vast majority of Police officers do not have much knowledge in this field of Firearms. To be fair, a police officer has to be aware of a vast spectrum of laws & regulations. For example, social issues regarding childeren, traffic law, burlary, tresspass, Firearms regs (Including Air weapons Etc) assualt, Theft, Possession (Various offences) Drugs, And many other areas. They have to carry all this knowledge around in thier heads & make instant decissions on the spot in most cases. A Lawyer can refer to law books whenever he wants. I do not defend all Police Oficers, some are excellent with a good & sensible balance & interpretation of the laws. Some are Officious & a bad example of the Service. John, it is the LAWS that are wrong, & laws are made & passsed by Politicians who dont live in the real world most of the time! They can go Home at the end of the day to thier safe little Ivory Castles all nicely Burgular alarmed up. Where as the average 'Joe' cannot afford to do that & live with all the Rubbish enacted by Parlimant.

A lot of Politicians dont have a clue about the majority of 'US' & when needing information. I personaly think a lot of the time that relevant information has been deliberately withheld. So that the new laws regarding DeActs can be 'slipped through'. IE & BOTTOM LINE: If ANY type of Firearm is Banned/ withdrawn from the Public sector. Then Firearms crime will dissapear! What a lovely 'Alice in Farytail land' idea!!!!:argh:

I TOTALLY agree with you John. Our Laws are MORE than adequte to deal with Offenders. We have THE tightest laws in Europe regarding weapons & De-Acts. It is the EXISTING laws that need to be enforced. But with insufficient resources being diverted. They will always have to make excuses for 'Not delivering'! My view (VERY strong on this one!) if we are in the EU. Why dont we have the same / unilateral laws as they do abroad to simplfiy things? Especially in the De-Acts side of things. Did you know. You can legally own & use REAL Firearms without a Licence of ANY kind. For Firearms converted to Blank fireing only? No, well thats costing the UK TAX PAYER £40,000,000 a DAY to be in the EU!!! I didnt ask to go in it & Im damm sure the majority didnt want to go in it either! But as freedom loving citizens. The government decided on OUR behalf to go in. Even though it was pointed out at the time that the so called benifit would soon cost US dear! Sorry moderators! NOT meant to be a POLITICAL rant! Just the TRUTH from my expirience & dealing with 'The System'! :-(

 

Mike. :nono:

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Interestingly - it looks like the loud-mouth responsible for this knee-jerk reaction is leaving office. Perhaps the successor might have more brains and realize peeing off the law- abiding section of the electorate is no way to ensure continued job prospects???

 

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8079205.stm

 

We can but hope.............

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Interestingly - it looks like the loud-mouth responsible for this knee-jerk reaction is leaving office. Perhaps the successor might have more brains and realize peeing off the law- abiding section of the electorate is no way to ensure continued job prospects???

 

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8079205.stm

 

We can but hope.............

 

One of the things she has been qouted as saying publicly Neil is:

'airsoft guns can be converted to fire live ammunition very easily'. :shocked:

I heard this with disbelife at the time!!

As a Proffesional Armourer with over 30 years expirience of a broad spectrum of firearms repair, modifications,maunufacture, research & Development under my Belt. I wrote a letter to Ms.Smith at the time in the form of a challange. I would donate £1,000 to a charity of her choice if she could produce a single shread of eveidence of an Airsoft weapon EVER being converted to fire a single round. Guess what? I never heard a thing!! What a suprise! :cool2:

It's dangerous talk like Hers in public from the ill informed & totaly ignorant of the actual subject. That certain members of the public & Gutter press pick up & spread with alacrity! that is how rumours start with incorrect & False statements from 'Publicly elected' officials like her. :nono:

Well I for one did not vote for HER, & am VERY pleased to see she is going! :yay:

Im sure she will be rapidly replaced with a similar ill informed new broom who is also able to have the power of speech from thier 'Rear Waste Tube'!!!!!......................:coffee:

Rant over,....... Carry On Sarnt' Major! :saluting:

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it dosnt matter who is there they still do not have a clue about it

 

Absolutely correct! It is departmental policy in the Home Office to 'Rotate' the staff every six months. (Particularly the Firearms dept.)

This is deliberate, it couse even more confusion.

You just get a good working rapore with someone in the department for export licences, proceduaral enquiries Etc. Then you get someone who has not got a clue as to what you are talking about. This slows down & frustrates people trying to do the right, & legal thing.

And to add frustration, the person you are talking to has such a strong Foreign accent, you cant understand a word they are saying!

My Father has lost it on the phone a couple of times with them when applying for export permits.= 'Get me someone on the Damm phone who can speak the Queens English!' a bit sensitive in these times. But he is of the opinion that he served the crown in Uniform for over 26 years & has earned the right to speak his mind TRUTHFULLY!! At his age (83 & STILL a Working Gunsmith!) He is of an age where it would be pointless attempting to prosecute an 'upstanding citizen' who is a Sec.5 Holder for many years & with a Excellent reputation with County headquarters Police! :yay:

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He'd have loved my old job then Mike. The company shifted all our Oracle support out to India where, we were assured, it would be handled by trained professionals who spoke fluent English.

 

Ha!!! :argh:

 

First time I needed a database shut down and restarted I was on the phone for well over an hour explaining to the "trained professional" at the other end that shutting a DB down did not mean just switching the hosting server on and off again. The last 2/3 of the call was done on speaker phone with senior management listening to this persons attempts at speaking English. We had control of our DB's restored to us within 2 days.

 

Apologies for veering off topic there.....

 

Back on topic - with an election brewing and the thought uppermost in what passes for their minds that every mainstream party is in for a damned good hiding in the polls due to the "snouts in the trough" expose's recently - do you not think there is a slight chance they will try and avoid p*ss*ng off yet another chunk of the voters by at the very least wiping thousands of the values of their collections - if not banning it outright???

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with an election brewing and the thought uppermost in what passes for their minds that every mainstream party is in for a damned good hiding in the polls due to the "snouts in the trough" expose's recently - do you not think there is a slight chance they will try and avoid p*ss*ng off yet another chunk of the voters by at the very least wiping thousands of the values of their collections - if not banning it outright???

 

 

one word answer begining with n:argh:

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one word answer begining with n:argh:

lee, i totaly agree with daves answer! They dont give toss about us or our hobby. We are in the minority as far as they are concerned! The other prob is, procedural. Remember my other post concerning 'doing something'. This will carry on as thier answer to addressing a problem as 'they' see it! One that doesnt really exist, but they can then 'crow' they at least have done something! this will also be carried on by the succesive governemnt. I reitterate: 'if they get rid of as many 'types' of gun as possible. Then the problem will disapear'!!

This is the incredulous ,ignorant, ill advised, ill informed, & cavalier attitude that ministers have towards firearms!

Now if you mention any further restrictions on shotguns, well!! That's a different matter you see. Because ';gentlemen' shoot shotguns, dont they? They make me sick!!!

Sorry, but i would be moderated for putting down in print my own thoughts & words that i would really like to use!! I think you get the picture!! :-( .......... My prv is begining to blow!

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Now if you mention any further restrictions on shotguns, well!! That's a different matter you see. Because ';gentlemen' shoot shotguns, dont they? They make me sick!!!

 

The Labour MP for Reading East campaigned for abolishing Replica Guns, but at the same time he went shooting with Shotguns. Proof was the photos in the local paper.

 

I have written to my MP Rob Wilson, a Conservative, asking his views on the proposed controls. I will let you know the reply.

 

OK, Political bit overwith. I'm off to paint-strip a Jerrycan to work off my stress.

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