View Full Version : Restoration Yet Another Ward La France restoration project.
Hope not too many people are getting bored with Ward La France projects taking over the forum.
Mine eventually got picked up today and delivered to it's temporary new home.
First two pictures are in Wales. Last is in Lancashire.
I can recommend the haulier TW Bowler of Marple for anyone in the North.
catweazle
12-09-2008, 21:05
:shake:Now you dunnit.:shocked:
First job is to make it mobile under it's own power. A cummins Diesel has been fitted by previous owners but I've not yet heard it run. The engine is a very good fit in the original engine bay. Looks like it always belonged there.
AndyFowler
12-09-2008, 21:10
Nice one Norman ! Keep em coming !:-D
catweazle
12-09-2008, 21:12
Thats a good start.
No starter was fitted as collected. Not having heard the vehicle run I thought it a good idea to turn the engine over by hand first of all.
There is a starting dog fitted on the crank pully which lines up with the original hole in the front crossmember. The 101 Starting handle was just long enough to reach and engage with the starter dog. Unfortunately the winch rope made it a tight and awkward fit. Even with the decompression lever open I wasn't able to turn the engine over.
I decided to fit the starter supplied with the vehicle and give that a go. Low and behold with a few sparks from temporary jump leads the engine truned over. First with decompressor open then whilst closed.
Discovering the floor mounted starter button was seized put paid to any further progress for the day. Floor mounted button has been removed and freed off at home this evening ready for wiring in tomorrow.
Great work Norman and well done! Did you get the donor WLF with it?
abn deuce
12-09-2008, 22:17
The fit of the starter crank handle on the Ward may be the same as on the GMC as in you first have to un-spool all the winch cable from the drum then the handle will lay on or be just a bit above the winch drum to allow you to put the crank rod into the end of the crankshaft , So its the very last resort to use a crank handle on a WWII GMC or Ward? winch equiped vehicle , Jumping or bumping much perfered if the stater fails .
Great work Norman and well done! Did you get the donor WLF with it?
Yes there is another one for spares. Bought and paid for both but only collected the one so far.
The fit of the starter crank handle on the Ward may be the same as on the GMC as in you first have to unspoll all the winch cable from the drum then the handle will lay on or be just a bit above the winch drum to allow you to put the crank rod into the end of the crankshaft , So its the very last resort to use a crank handle on a WWII GMC or Ward? winch equiped vehicle , Jumping or bumping much perfered if the stater fails .
Unfortunately the free spool doig clutch is seized at the moment. Looks like just removing a few layers would be enough to get clearance. Hopefully never need to put the starting handle near it again.
Good job Norman, she looks great! Definitely the most exciting part of this type of rebuild is getting here to run for the first time, good luck! :yay:
Willyslancs
13-09-2008, 09:21
nice motor ! keep the pics coming please .
Very nice, very nice indeed. I will follow this one with great interest.:)
What Cummins motor is fitted?
Very nice, very nice indeed. I will follow this one with great interest.:)
What Cummins motor is fitted?
If anyone can tell me the model of Cummins motor and any information I'd be very pleased to here. Here's some more pictures of the Cummins.
Norman, have a think about replacing that top hose with perhaps a metal section and two heavier short rubber/neporene bends - that *&%$£& corrugated stuff almost cost me a Cummins 220!!
Tony
Norman, have a think about replacing that top hose with perhaps a metal section and two heavier short rubber/neporene bends - that *&%$£& corrugated stuff almost cost me a Cummins 220!!
Tony
Definately on the list to do. Looks ugly anyway and I need get some bottom hoses sorted out as well.
According to the picture in my "New Thompson Repair and Tune-up Manual of 1949" (even down to the now-redundant dynamo bracket), that is a Model H-600, which is a really nice period motor :-D
It is a 672 cu inch engine, 4 7/8" bore with a lovely long 6" stroke. Compression ratio is 17-1.
Max. automotive output (unless you've got a supercharger tucked away on the right hand side - model HS-600) is a miserly 150hp at 1800 rpm, which Tootallmike, when he has finished wedding duties, may have something to say about.......:shake:
The only tiny tiny niggling doubt is that there was also a K model (see your serial no.plate), but this was a massive 6 3/4" stroke and 9" bore (1932 cu inch) so I'm sure this engine would not fit into the WLF. No other info on that model.
On a positive note, I'm sure it will slog down to about 600rpm in true 'big Cummins' style :rofl:
Tony
OK, the only other niggling doubt is that the photo does not have a model against it, and the spec also lists the Model NH. But it is certainly not the model NH that I know from late 50's, and I can't see them totally redesigning the engine with 3 separate heads and keeping the same model desgnation....
The NH spec shows 6" bore and 5 1/8" stroke with displacmnt 743 cu ich. No power output given. I'm still certain it is a Model H.
Sort of confirms my worst fears about the engine being a plodder. The original petrols revved to 2400rpm with max speed of 45mph. 1800rpm is going to struggle to get the vehicle to 35mph!
Anyone know of a higher ratio transfer box for a Ward La France?
According to the picture in my "New Thompson Repair and Tune-up Manual of 1949" (even down to the now-redundant dynamo bracket), that is a Model H-600, which is a really nice period motor :-D
It is a 672 cu inch engine, 4 7/8" bore with a lovely long 6" stroke. Compression ratio is 17-1.
Max. automotive output (unless you've got a supercharger tucked away on the right hand side - model HS-600) is a miserly 150hp at 1800 rpm, which Tootallmike, when he has finished wedding duties, may have something to say about.......:shake:
The only tiny tiny niggling doubt is that there was also a K model (see your serial no.plate), but this was a massive 6 3/4" stroke and 9" bore (1932 cu inch) so I'm sure this engine would not fit into the WLF. No other info on that model.
On a positive note, I'm sure it will slog down to about 600rpm in true 'big Cummins' style :rofl:
Tony
Thanks for the information so far Tony.
Are you sure the bore and stroke aren't reversed on that K model. Surely stroke would be larger than bore?
May need to pick your brains on the injection side of things when I come to try and start it again.
Just googled Cummins Model H and come up with this manual on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1942-Cummins-Model-H-Series-Diesel-Engine-Manual-WWII_W0QQitemZ110288776936QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ200 80912?IMSfp=TL0809121110005r37321
The posted picture seems to show an engine with three cylinder heads, Gardner Style.
Although this is for a presumably later model 1942 engine.
Exactly my thoughts. I've scanned the page in but cannot reduce file size to post it, due to glitch in computer at present. Will keep trying.
Looks to be a common rail injector system, injector worked off camshaft by pushrod. The book has several pages on injection system and timing and other stuff.
I'm sure the H-600 was used in some wartime MVs but can't recall what at present. Anyone?
This book definitely shows your engine in the pic. Above it lists the Model H-600 and a Model AA-600 (4" bore, 5" stroke, 377 cu inch and 100hp at 2200rpm). The Model K is listed a few pages on, and is not that one.
It can't be the H according to the manual you've found, so possibly the AA? More revs, even less guts!!!!!
Got the pic to fit at last.
The H-600 is an 11 litre, the NH is 12.2 litre and the AA is 6.2 litre.
As a very rough guide ('cos modern engines have shorter stroke therefore will be v.slightly longer for same capacity?), a modern C (8 litre) will only just fit the WLF, a modern 6B (5.9 litre) will go in with several inches to spare.
This should give you an idea, but I suspect it must be an AA-600. The auxilliaries look identical though :confused:
You could contact Cummins Tehnical (John Christiansen) at Wellingborough, on 01933 67220 - if you email some pics he might be able to help.
Markheliops
14-09-2008, 15:49
Hi Norman -
Haven't seen this thread before so welcome to the ever increasing WLF owners club -
Are they the Wards young Jack was looking at - if so I studied the pictures in detail and I must say from what I could see - the bits restored have been done to a tidy standard.
I shall follow this restoration with interest and good luck in your efforts.
Markheliops
Well yesterday was a short day on the WLF due to other commitments. Got the wires in from battery to starter via foot switch. Foot switch was seized with paint so freed that off.
Got the engine to turn over on foot switch, but not fire.
Good job as oil pressure built up and squirted from an aperture at the rear of the engine. This must be the fitting for an oil pressure gauge but all the gauges are missing from the dash at the moment.
A later visit on Saturday just to show the missus what I'd bought and why she wouldn't be seeing as much of me for a while. Whilst there decided to add some water to the radiator ready for a trial run the following day.
After a few seconds delay I heard running water. No bottom hose fitted and what looked like a leak from the radiator near the bottom.
Hi Norman -
Haven't seen this thread before so welcome to the ever increasing WLF owners club -
Are they the Wards young Jack was looking at - if so I studied the pictures in detail and I must say from what I could see - the bits restored have been done to a tidy standard.
I shall follow this restoration with interest and good luck in your efforts.
Markheliops
Yep, same ones Jack was looking at.
This mornings jobs were to temporarily fit an oil pressure gauge and remove the radiator for inspection.
Radiator removal is quite simple for such a large item. Removing the radiator from the frame was less so with years of corrosion to the bottom steel frame sealing it in.
With the radiator due a visit to the reconditioning shop I again turned my attention to the engine.
No luck with the oil gauge fitting with the spare connectors I had so a temporary solution to blank off the aperture. Oil pressure was known to be reasonable by the two foot jet produced whilst cranking on the starter.
The lack of a radiator meant I wouldn't be running the engine for long but previous attempts had shown no signs of life.
Cracking the couplings to the injectors showed fuel pressure at the injector inlets, but no sign of starting. Lifting the rocker cover seemed to show all was in order. The extra followers for the injectors can be seen here.
And I thought cam operated injectors were a modern invention!
A few more attempts at starting and I was beginning to get demoralised wondering if I had a duff engine or some injector pump or timing problem.
It was time for the last resort. A visit to the local garage for a can of easy start.
A good squirt and crank and it burst into life. A few seconds enjoyment then I quickly reached for the stop lever.
A few ups and downs along the way but a good end to the weekend.
Hope to have the radiator repaired and installed soon for a longer test run.
AndyFowler
14-09-2008, 21:30
Where would we be without Easy Start ! Well done mate ! :-D
Nice to see you got the first one back care of Bowlers, they are just down the road from me. Glad that you have at least heard that Cummins running I did have a good look at it when it was in the shed at Trevors next to my M578. Dont know if you have a good local sandblaster but if you need a recomendation the guy who did the M578 does a really good job. PM me if you want his details.
John.
catweazle
14-09-2008, 22:09
And I thought cam operated injectors were a modern invention!
Been around a long time,but cummins have used them more than anyone else,we had them when we were training,when we had suceded in ruining the timing they would send for the old boy from fords down the rd to get it running again.We had a pilot boat with 2 cummins v8 185s that used the system,called pressure/time something or other.the good thing about it is it only needs a low pressure pump,as the injectors do what the say and inject,in other systems there just atomisers.
TooTallMike
15-09-2008, 21:35
Well done Norman! I'm very pleased to hear it runs. I will get back to you on the chassis number once I've finished my Land Rover rear crossmember replacement mess!
Tony looks to be right about the power/displacement/revs issue - it sounds like that's a low-end slogger but you ain't gonna win any races! Depends what you want to use the truck for as to whether you keep it or upgrade. Whatever you do, diesel is definitely the way forward as Uncle Mark is unhappily finding out...!
Let us know if you need any help from the UKWLFOC - just send a blank cheque to our membership secretary and we'll do the rest :-D.
Oh, and congratulations once again on your purchase of not one but two real man's trucks :whistle:
- Mike
Thanks Mike.
And thanks for the heads up on the data plates. After a bit of thought decided to go for them and they arrived Saturday. A bit expensive I thought but quite a comprehensive set. Won't need them for a while but didn't know if I'd see any come up for sale again later.
Now I know the engine works I'll stick with it for the time being. Too much other work to do to think about changing it. May review the situation in a few years when it's getting some use.
Well tried a few places for radiator repairs. First place said about a dozen leaks :cry:
and needed a new core, total cost £1000 :eek: :eek: :eek:
Tried another place and they said they thought all leaks were from the bottom tank, they could replace it for £250 but couldn't guarantee the core would be good afterwards. It would be extra to remake the rotten frame.
After due consideration I decided to try and tackle repairs myself. The fall back option would be to try and source a secondhand radiator.
Here's the radiator cleaned up showing the source of a few of the leaks.
I remade a blanking plate that was rusty and bent.
Improvisation was required to pressure test the radiator.
Next part was to remake the bottom frame. Unfortunately the radiator is 3ft wide and my folder is only capable of bending 2 1/2 ft. I could have waited a week until my friend is back from holiday and used his 8ft folder but I'm impatient to get the thing up and running.
catweazle
21-09-2008, 21:45
Your doin well there Norman,making me tired.CW.
So Saturday came and time to refit the radiator and give things a try.
A new piece of bottom hose installed. Modern silicon I'm afraid but at least it's black and not a bling colour.
Radiator installed ad time to start filling up with water. First few litres and no problem then I could here a drip! Not from the radiator this time though. Turned out to be the engine block drain tap open. A few more litres and another leak this time the bottom hose drain tap!
All fine to about the 20 litre mark then a huge leak. This time coming from the water pump.
I've now taken the water pump off and stripped it down at home. Now just got to try and find some suitable seals for a 1940's Cummins water pump. :-(
AndyFowler
22-09-2008, 06:42
Good job we enjoy getting our hands dirty on this forum ! Well done mate keep up the good work !:-D
Got the water pump re-assembled early in the week and re-fitted. Having stripped the pump there was no real seal. Found out it relies on graphite bush lapped to the rear face of the pump. This rear face was heavily pitted with corrosion so was cleaned up before refitting the pump. The graphite bush was heavily worn so was reversed on refitting to present a better face to the cleaned up pump body.
An unexpected piece of good fortune during the week. A Cummins A series diesel engine manual dated 1945 appeared on Ebay. Bit expensive but I had to have it!
So far I had only been able to run the engine for short burst before it dies out. Fuel starartion seemed to be the cause. The manual was a great help in remedying some of these problems.
Below you can see the results of thirty plus years inactivity. The fuel float chamber was full of muck and corrosion. As soon as I touched the float it fell off :shocked:
A clean up revealed the float was also dented and cracked. Out with the soldering equipment again to repair the float. The fuel inlet valve was also found to be stuck this prevented fuel getting to the float chamber. The engine had only been running on priming fuel which bypasses these valves and the float chamber.
Stormin - has that pump impeller lost a fair bit of meat off the vanes?
AndyFowler
28-09-2008, 21:05
Very interesting Norman ! Thanks for posting ! :-D
All this work to the bottom end of the fuel pump made little difference to the running. The engine would now run for longer but did not respond to throttle movements :(
Further strip down of the top of the pump was required and revealed more corrosion and seized parts. Luckily a quick clean up and some lubrication was all that was required. Actual wear didn't look to bad.
Having got the engine running Trying to move the vehicle under it's own power was next on the agenda. No air piping to brakes at the moment so the handbrake was adjusted up to provide a means of bringing things to a halt.
First attempts to move were unnsuccessful. Tried checking all levers were in gear but there was no drive through the gearbox.
I left for home on Saturday night fearing the worst or at least a gearbox out and maybe clutch replacement.
Returning on Sunday morning I quickly discovered the problem was simply that the clutch mechanism had been incorrectly assembled and was holding the pressure plate in. An hour or so of adjustments later and I've had it moving albeit slowly under it's own power for the first time in what must be years.
Stormin - has that pump impeller lost a fair bit of meat off the vanes?
I think the picture makes it look worse than it actually is. May have lost a tiny bit to corrosion but once the high spots of flaky rust were removed all vanes seemed to be similar height. The shaft bearings were OK and there doesn't appear to have been any rubbing against the rear face of the pump. Here's a picture before the puller was used to draw the impeller off the shaft. Not very clear but a fairly close fit.
Got the pic to fit at last.
The H-600 is an 11 litre, the NH is 12.2 litre and the AA is 6.2 litre.
As a very rough guide ('cos modern engines have shorter stroke therefore will be v.slightly longer for same capacity?), a modern C (8 litre) will only just fit the WLF, a modern 6B (5.9 litre) will go in with several inches to spare.
This should give you an idea, but I suspect it must be an AA-600. The auxilliaries look identical though :confused:
You could contact Cummins Tehnical (John Christiansen) at Wellingborough, on 01933 67220 - if you email some pics he might be able to help.
Thanks again N.O.S.
Contacted John Christensen at Cummins as you suggested and received an e-mail today from one of his colleagues. It gives the full build sheet details for the engine as shipped 30th Jan 1945. Great testament to the records kept at the company and the dedication of the staff there for researching this information.
E-mail came back titled "Historic Engine" :-)
Glad they were able to help you - I was not expecting that though!! What a result :)
They have always been very helpful to us over the years. A pleasure to deal with people who actually have a pride in their products!
I take it you won't be needing the rear body?
I take it you won't be needing the rear body?
I've not ruled it out yet. Waiting on my fabricator friend to give a me a guide price on repairing mine to see which would be most economically viable. He's a bit busy building an extension to his workshop at the moment.
I've not ruled it out yet. Waiting on my fabricator friend to give a me a guide price on repairing mine to see which would be most economically viable.
No problem. I'll tell the other 14 anxious people you have an option on it :-D
Another option might be for you to come down and cut out whatever sections you need if this would help - e.g. the centre locker and lid, although needing a new lower section and floor, could save a bit of time and could be shoved into a car along with side locker and other bits?
Great War truck
01-10-2008, 20:16
Just found this thread. What fun! Great job and hope to see it sometime.
Tim (too)
Old Bill
03-10-2008, 21:11
Likewise. It's great to see all the detail pics and all the individual jobs which have to be done. A lot of people just don't realise what goes into a restoration job. I'm getting an education in diesels too!
Keep up the good work!
Steve
Bad weather during the week meant no visits up to the truck. It's currently stored outside about half an hours drive away so most work has to take place at weekend.
One job I could look at during the week at home was the dynamo.
I was informed by the previous owner it needed looking at!
A quick test on the bench revealed no voltage produced. A quick test with the meter and no resistance between the terminals or the body. I feared the worst, burnt out or shorted windings. A bit more of a look revealed the problem as both terminals on the outer body were connect to one of the carbon brushes. No connection to the other so current was not flowing around the armature or the field coils. I took the opportunity to strip the dynamo for cleaning and painting. Found many a years worth of dead spiders in there. I cleaned up the commutator ring and the terminals to improve performance. Final photo is dynamo in place on top of the engine.
On to the weekend and I'm still having problems running the engine for more than a few minutes at a time.
One problem entirely of my own doing was breaking the emergency fuel stop tap. Nothing like it to hand or available so a modern replacement was fitted which does the job but needs changing for something more appropriate in the future.
The cause of my engine running problems would seem to be with the fuel supply. Running from a temporary fuel can mounted above the engine the is no problem. The primary fuel suction pump is of the gear type and easily loses it's prime. I suspect the problem is with the fuel pipe routing. The original petrol tanks is quite deep and takes its feed out of the top of the tank before dropping down to chassis rail level and through a modern filter before reaching the fuel pump. I suspect pump is struggling to syphon fuel from the tank and fuel is draining back.
I intend to change the fuel pick up arrangement, possibly to feed from near the bottom of the tank and to have a non return valve at the end of the pick up pipe. All this requires removal of the tank.
I'm going to take the opportunity to clean it thoroughly as well. There is a lot of water showing in the sediment bowl. Also whilst attempting to drain fuel the other week the drain was blocked with debris and required a poke with a screwdriver before spilling dirty diesel down my arm.
catweazle
06-10-2008, 10:06
Well done mate your getting there,all i can say is something my old instrutor used to say he was a REME man.THe longest ways the Quickest.CW
Well after a few weeks break I was back on with the project at the weekend. The fuel tank which was removed last time was cleaned out and a new pick up pipe boss welded in. Thanks to DJM engineering for the welding. Second picture shows inside of tank after much crud wash washed out.
I was surprised to find the tank had been made with internal baffles. Not the original tank but a good copy and quite sound. The tank I have for the other side is badly corroded and will be merely for display.
I changed the fuel filter for a combined filter and sedimenter. The existing one (shown left) was a sedimenter only. I also fitted a modern priming bulb in line which includes a non return valve. Hopefully this should sort out any fuel feed problems.
Finally managed to get the elusive radiator cap!
Actually I have to admit I've had it for a few weeks but haven't fitted it believing it was still too small. Well if only I'd tried sooner. Went up to top up anti-freeze today and was amazed to find the cap fitted. Looks the best bit on the truck now :rofl:
Still having problems with the engine not responding to the throttle. Checked the injector pump timing again at weekend and found I was out by quite a margin from when I last refitted the pump top. I'm mystified as to how this came about as I checked it and was sure it was correct before replacing. Anyhow a second pair of eyes helped this time, and gave me some stick for messing up previously.
My thoughts are now turning to the governor mechanism sticking. There has been plenty of corrosion in some parts of the injector pump so could be the same there. I may yet have to completely remove and strip the injector pump to eliminate all problems. The job doesn't look too complicated I am just worried I may find I need a part that is unobtainable.
Those rad cap pics are going to seriously p£$$ off some US guys on g503.com who seem desperate for M1A1 caps - get ready for an avalanche of begging letters. I'm thinking about posting a template "Dear Stormin" letter on there to help them :-D:-D:-D
Those rad cap pics are going to seriously p£$$ off some US guys on g503.com who seem desperate for M1A1 caps - get ready for an avalanche of begging letters. I'm thinking about posting a template "Dear Stormin" letter on there to help them :-D:-D:-D
I've just registered on G503 with the intention of posting a few pictures myself. :evil:
The irony is I got it from there own back yard.
Had a go at removing the rear body last weekend.
First to come off was the crane boom. It's a long unwieldy piece and took a few attempts to rig correctly for lifting.
Next to come off was the main rear body. It had been the intention to remove the rear deck seperately from the crane and winch. But someone had welded the two parts together at some point. We could have removed the welds and still separated the sections but further inspection showed the rear deck section was so badly corroded it would probably fall apart or at least lose some of it's shape whilst lifting. This would make it a lot harder to repair. Again several attempts at rigging were required to find a balance point. We actually settled for lifting the body up onto packers, rear end first then front, before lifting the whole thing clear. The body fit's quite tightly to the chassis and at one point the overhead crane was lifting the rear wheels. Thanks to Dave at DJM engineering for the use of the overhead crane.
A quick inspection of the rear chassis shows it's not too bad. Sorry to John Gott on the Diamond T 969A restoration but I wasn't able to get photo's with just the rear deck removed. May try again on re-assembly.
Can't say the same for the rear body however. Just a few shots to show how bad it is.
Also been busy stripping down the Cummins fuel pump. Removed it from the vehicle and took it home to work on in the garage during the week. Quite a few needle roller bearings were seized or sticky and needed fettling. A bit of improvisation with a 12 bore cartridge for reinstallation. Last picture shows a bearing face that's badly pitted and may be partly responsible for poor throttle and governor action.
catweazle
09-11-2008, 22:46
We found the cat pump had suffered water damage due mainly to standing around for so long.i think the cast iron body on the pump seems to hold the moisture.best of luck with it.Cat had to do mine in the end i wont frighten you with the price.cw.
Fantastic work Norman - stupid question but when do you plan to have it ready by?
And what a workshop!
AndyFowler
09-11-2008, 23:54
Now that IS a workshop that I would aspire to come those six lucky lotto numbers ! :-D
We found the cat pump had suffered water damage due mainly to standing around for so long.i think the cast iron body on the pump seems to hold the moisture.best of luck with it.Cat had to do mine in the end i wont frighten you with the price.cw.
I think it's the same problem with the Cummins pump. Bearings, plungers and likages seized with rust. Forunately this pump is quite simple and I've got the Cummins manual. This engine is not as highly tuned as some either. :undecided:
Fantastic work Norman - stupid question but when do you plan to have it ready by?
And what a workshop!
Not putting a time scale on things Jack. We've got another baby due in February so that will reduce project time.
Yes it's a great workshop. Unfortunately it's not mine (wish it was). Belongs to my friend Dave at DJM engineering in Bacup, Lancs. He's kindly allowed me to park my vehicle in his yard whilst I carry out some of the work. He'll also be undertaking the welding and fabrication of a new rear body. He's registered on here and I think slowly becoming infected with the green bug.
gritineye
10-11-2008, 09:34
All good stuff Norman, great detail pics and descriptions, just what we need, thanks.
42 chevy
10-11-2008, 12:42
Norman;
I can see that my job was alot less involved than yours in removing the bed. Having that overhead gantry crane sure helped.
Great photos. I was not aware that the rear winch and crane were attached.
Great job.
I am now rebuilding my brake chambers. I would suggest that you have a look at yours as well. My brakes worked, however, I have found alot off debri in the chambers and some valves that were sticking( check valves and relay valves). A good cleaning was in order. I will post pics under Diamond T air brakes.
John Gott
Norman;
I can see that my job was alot less involved than yours in removing the bed. Having that overhead gantry crane sure helped.
Great photos. I was not aware that the rear winch and crane were attached.
Great job.
I am now rebuilding my brake chambers. I would suggest that you have a look at yours as well. My brakes worked, however, I have found alot off debri in the chambers and some valves that were sticking( check valves and relay valves). A good cleaning was in order. I will post pics under Diamond T air brakes.
John Gott
Brakes are next on the agenda after I've got the engine running properly. Be a lot easier with the crane removed. It was only when the bed was removed that I notice the brake chambers for the rear axle are not fitted. I also noticed the nuts and studs securing the brake chambers to the second axle are wasted with corrosion and have been painted over. I'm expecting the compressor to need a good looking at as well if it's anything like the injector pump.
I was thinking of trying to obtain new diaphragms for the brake chambers as they're of unknown age and probably on the points of failing if not already failed. With there only being one air circuit a split diaphragm would be a disaster and leave no brakes. :shake:
I assume the diamond T is on exactly the same brake system?
With there only being one air circuit a split diaphragm would be a disaster and leave no brakes. :shake:
Ask Heliops about that one and he will tell you.
42 chevy
10-11-2008, 15:03
Norman;
I believe they are, they might even use the same axles, from your pictures thay look the same. I have a source new diaprhams, but I believe you can get new ones from sources near you.
John
Haven't posted any updates for a while but I haven't been idle on the truck.
Got the fuel pump back together and installed. Runs better than ever now with a very positive throttle response, something that was lacking before. Still a little smokey so injectors may need a clean at some point, but it hasn't really had much load on the engine yet.
Working outside is getting more difficult at this time of year.
42 chevy
21-12-2008, 15:15
Norman;
You have the snow I see and I have the very cold temps right now. The better part of the US is getting hammered by a brutal winter storm currently.
I am working on small parts in the shop as I have the truck sitting outside on jack stands currently
How is the brake rebuild coming along?
John
abn deuce
21-12-2008, 15:49
Going to get brutally cold here in Nebraska tonight ...expected -11 f with winds 25 to 35mph plus making for -25 or more windchill . currently +2 f
would not want be outside period.
As Ranger said on the dodge site go out in summer attire and spend a few moments to get a feel for what the soldiers experianced in the winter of 44 !
Thats seriously cold, although we had the coldest start to December for more than 30 years it has now gone back to our usual damp and mild.
Well it's been a while since I last posted but I've not been totally idle.
Most work has been in th air brake system and the rear axles.
After rigging up some copper pipes for the brakes there was a complete failure to build pressure in the system. First to be looked at was the brake actuator. Stipped down on the bench it looked in remarkably good condition internally thanks to a stainless steel diaphragm.
Replacing the actuator made no difference still no air pressure.
Next to be looked at was the rear brake relay valve. That was a different story.
Remoarkably it cleaned up quite well. Even the rubber diaphragm was serviceable under all the crud. Seeing what mositure had done to this item, made me re-arrange the air brake piping. I made sure all the air went through both air reservoirs before reaching any ancillaries. Whilst this is the standard arrangement on the Ward La France, my air compressor is on the opposite side so I had to modify the pipe runs.
Next for the strip down treatment were the rear brake chambers. Some of the nut and bolts were seriously corroded. Obviously been sitting covered in mud for years.
Two of the diaphragms were shot. The other two would probably have been O.K. but for the price I ordered four from Army cars in Holland.
One of the brake chamber tops was severely pitted internally to the point of perforation. I elected to weld this up.
All the chambers were grit blasted and have now been partially painted.
catweazle
15-02-2009, 22:30
Serious crud there mate,but its satisfying to see the finshed part.:-D
42 chevy
16-02-2009, 04:06
Norman;
Nice work on the brake chambers.. Mine were no where near as bad as shape as yours. That relay valve was a mess.
I bet you will sleep better tonigth knowing you went thru a complete overhaul of the brake system.
I am working on my wheels right now, I will post pictures soon.
John
Markheliops
16-02-2009, 10:41
Good work Norman.
Off to the farm on Thursday so if you want any pictures of certain components let me know.
Markheliops
Whilst some of the small brake parts have made it to the home workshop for fettling, I've been spending time at weekends removing brake parts from the back axles. All the S cam's were seized. The paintwork on the rear axles is not good, green slapped over grease and dirt. The intention is to strip the axles down somewhat for better access and grit blast then paint again.
It was a good workout removing eight rear wheels and four brake drum / hub units. in fact it was two workouts on consecutive weekends as I had to make a makeshift spanner to fit the large hub nuts. It was a bit cold at times too!
Managed to warm up rapidly moving wheels and hubs.
Had to resort to the torch to remove all the S cams. The slack adjusters were easily removed and will be cleaned up by wire brush and painted at home. I'm going to have to source new needle roller bearings for S cam's as they're all past it.
catweazle
16-02-2009, 22:36
Well done mate,seeing these pics reminds me of when i did this sort of thing for the then Metropoliton Water board,one things for sure i couldnt do it now.:sweat:
AndyFowler
16-02-2009, 22:36
Nice job mate ! I reckon it needed doing !:wow: Should last another sixty years now ! :-D
Meanhile, indoors my friend and fabricator at DJM engineering has made a start on the rear body restoration. The amount of work and tools required to do this are beyond my means but fortunately I know a man who can! Between building a new extension to his workshop he's removed the upper part of the rear crane bed. It has now revealed that the corrosion is not limited to the upper part of the crane bed but also the main frame rails are thinned by corrosion. I'm hoping to source some correct size channel to repair this section, but have been looking for a couple of weeks with no luck.
I need two four foot lengths of 6" x 3 1/2" RSC tapered flanges. If anyone knows of any I'd be pleased to hear from them. Last resort is to repair with modern Parallel flange channel.
I'm not sure 6 x 3 1/2 was ever a stock UK size :???
6 x 3 yes, plenty of that turns up in reclaim yards. Even parallel flange stuff is 150 x 75 isn't it? :confused:
I'm wrong. And 150 x 90 parallel is available.
Try www.rainhamsteel.co.uk (http://www.rainhamsteel.co.uk) they deliver all over and certainly used to keep VAST stocks of older material. Although they do not list tapered flange channel I'm confident they will have some s/h stock.
Try www.rainhamsteel.co.uk (http://www.rainhamsteel.co.uk) they deliver all over and certainly used to keep VAST stocks of older material. Although they do not list tapered flange channel I'm confident they will have some s/h stock.
I tried them today out of interest (haven't dealt with them for a while now) and I was partly right - they USED to keep re-useable steel in vast quantities, but not for a few years :-(. They are new stockists only now.
Suppose you could always grind down just the ends to a taper over a couple of inches - only you and the millions of forum readers will ever know!
Old Bill
17-02-2009, 22:04
Well done Norman. It is great to see the detail of the restoration. It is the hours of work which go into bits like this which are just not recognised.
Keep up the good work!
Steve
I tried them today out of interest (haven't dealt with them for a while now) and I was partly right - they USED to keep re-useable steel in vast quantities, but not for a few years :-(. They are new stockists only now.
Suppose you could always grind down just the ends to a taper over a couple of inches - only you and the millions of forum readers will ever know!
Thanks for checking, for me. Didn't get chance myself today.
It's the same story at all the steel suppliers I've tried. Only parallel flange channel available for the last few years. Not sure it's been rolled at all in this country for years. PRC is a lot more convenient for structural use. Easier to bolt into flanges without wedge washers and smaller notches for side connections.
I think my only hope is finding some from a demolition or refurb job at a reclaim yard.
It's no good grinding the flanges of PFC it's already thinner near the web were it needs to be thicker.
We even considered stripping flanges from one side of an RSJ to get the same profile but that's a lot of work and I'm having to pay for it.
AndyFowler
17-02-2009, 22:29
Have you tried these mate ? Their website lists tapered channel ! http://www.industrialmetal.co.uk/channels.htm
Tapered channel is only available up to and including 100mm x 50mm. Larger sizes went to parallel flange only about 8 years back I believe.
Hence the need to find a "re-usable" steel stockist, and what have I just found in Lancashire (:cool2:) but www.ainscoughmetals.com (http://www.ainscoughmetals.com) who are listing 5 parcels of varying quantities of clean re-usable 150 x 90 channel - problem is it doesn't specify tapered or parallel, so you'll have to phone them.
Feeling lucky? :sweat:
Hence the need to find a "re-usable" steel stockist, and what have I just found in Lancashire (:cool2:) but www.ainscoughmetals.com (http://www.ainscoughmetals.com) who are listing 5 parcels of varying quantities of clean re-usable 150 x 90 channel - problem is it doesn't specify tapered or parallel, so you'll have to phone them.
Feeling lucky? :sweat:
150x90 suggests PFC, as old style is usually specified by the old imperial dimensions 152x89.
But I'll give them a go later if I can.
Bit busy this morning as the missus is due in hospital for the birth of our second child.
Have you tried these mate ? Their website lists tapered channel ! http://www.industrialmetal.co.uk/channels.htm
Thanks Andy.
I'll give them a try too, if I get chance.
150x90 suggests PFC, as old style is usually specified by the old imperial dimensions 152x89.
But I'll give them a go later if I can.
Bit busy this morning as the missus is due in hospital for the birth of our second child.
Yes you are right. I was thinking tapered channel went to metric sizing before the 'Parallel Flange Act' was passed (at least 12 years ago they reckon, not 8!), but not so apparently.
So anything 150 x 90 will not be tapered.
My problem is anything I build is 1/2 new steel, 1/2 old stuff - so inches and millimetres and odd sized steel is all imperial immaterial to me, and nothing fits right until the final machining pass with the gas axe :sweat:
Glad to see you have your priorities right - rusty steel and brake chambers are a pretty poor second to the excitement ahead of you. Hope all goes well! :yay:
I just phoned Andy's link, Norman, as I was amazed that they list on their website all the old imperial sizes in tapered as well as metric and I thought it would be useful for me too. They are a major steel stockist.
I said
"You're listing 152 x 89 channel in tapered" :)
He said
"Are we? What year is our old stock book you're looking at?" :rofl:
I said
"Erm, your website" :nono:
He said
"Oh heck, we'll have to look into that and put it right". :embarrassed: :n00b:
I thought you'd walked off with the Find-of-the Year Cup there, Andy! :thumbsup:
AndyFowler
18-02-2009, 10:38
Sorry to hear that Tony ! What a pain in the a--e it is that everything we need is not manufactured anymore ! Good luck with the impending birth Norman ! Hope it all goes well !:-D
Whilst myself and my missus have been busy with the new arrival, my friends at DJM engineering has been getting on with the back body work for the Ward. Managed to pop up for half an hour and have a look today. What a fantastic job they've made of it!
A few more detail photographs and one `before' shot.
catweazle
26-02-2009, 23:41
Looking good mate ,often wish i had spent more time on the bang crash and flash side.:-D
Finally got a spell of decent weather were I was able to get out and do a bit. First real test for the home made blast pot. Got the back axles blasted and primed this afternoon.
abn deuce
21-03-2009, 20:21
Looking good , would seem that the blasting unit worked just fine.
42 chevy
09-05-2009, 11:37
Norman;
Hope all is going well, I have not seen you post anthing since March. I am still working on my "million" small jobs. My repro oil filter decals I had made up arrived. I am rebuilding the air compressor currently. The radiator got sent out for an overall check. That thing must weigh 300 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John
Thanks for asking John.
Still making steady progress in between the weather.
Got the rest of the rear part of the chassis blasted and primed.
There were a few sections were blasting didn't do the trick and I had to resort to swinging the hammer to remove trapped rust. The rear cross member was one. The rust had got in and distorted the crossmember so it was above the level of the main rails. A few hours work with the hammer sorted this out. Interestingly using the hammer on the main longitudinal rails and it bounced off. Would appear the main rails are spring steel similar to modern trucks. The inserts and crossmembers are ordinary steel and have suffered more from corrosion.
Managed to find a spell in between the rain the other week to get a top coat on the rear chassis and axles.
Been busy inside finishing off the brakes. New diaphragms in place. New nuts and bolts holding chambers together and newly made studs holding the chambers to the mounting brackets.
Put the S cams in the lathe to clean them up. Also got the broken spring bracket welded up.
All brake parts are now painted ready for reassembly.
42 chevy
17-05-2009, 00:45
Norman;
Putting all those bolts in those the brake diaphrams brings back memories. The frame looks GREAT:):)
Japp Rietveld is bringing me some parts to the Aberdeen show next, so I can put some things back togather.
John
42 chevy
18-05-2009, 00:46
Norman;
Is that the final color "green" you are using or is it an undercoat?
John
That's the final colour, but not the final coat. I've spot primed the nuts and bolts and done another few top coats. May go over everything again once things are all boted up underneath but I'm a bit wary of paint getting into joints and partially seizing them.
The paint is a satin finish or semi-gloss. Looks very shiny for a few days then settles down to a more matt finish. The chassis pictures were taken 2 weeks after painting.
Markheliops
18-05-2009, 18:01
Looks good Norman.
Any idea of a finishing date?
Looks good Norman.
Any idea of a finishing date?
Not setting myself a date. I feel quite lucky to have got any time in at all on the truck with the recent new arrival in our family, so just taking it a step at a time. Weather will also be a governing factor I think as it's mostly outside work.
Not sure I'll ever be able to sat it's finished. All those items of tool kit to try and collect.
Willyslancs
18-05-2009, 19:06
looking good mate , like to see the pics ............
All those items of tool kit to try and collect.
Well, if you're getting to that stage already, and if the originals in Armycars' warehouse are to be relied upon, then this is the pattern of crowbar you need to find :banana: All 26lbs of it.
I've tracked them down to a Chinese manufacturer supplying the U.S.and Eurpoean markets, and last year found a distributer in Northamptonshire, but I've gone and lost the contact details now..... sorry
Can anyone confirm this is the correct wartime pattern?
Well, if you're getting to that stage already, and if the originals in Armycars' warehouse are to be relied upon, then this is the pattern of crowbar you need to find :banana: All 26lbs of it.
I've tracked them down to a Chinese manufacturer supplying the U.S.and Eurpoean markets, and last year found a distributer in Northamptonshire, but I've gone and lost the contact details now..... sorry
Can anyone confirm this is the correct wartime pattern?
Is that the 5ft length one for mounting on the boom, or the 42inch one for in the long toolbox? :readpaper:
Is that the 5ft length one for mounting on the boom, or the 42inch one for in the long toolbox? :readpaper:
That particular one is 5ft, but as being mounted on the boom, and as for the 42" one, -
OK, I think you'd better tell us EVERYTHING you know about WLF tool and kit - NOW!! :shocking:
That particular one is 5ft, but as being mounted on the boom, and as for the 42" one, -
OK, I think you'd better tell us EVERYTHING you know about WLF tool and kit - NOW!! :shocking:
Only what is written in TM9-796, section VIII, pages 83 to 98.
Only what is written in TM9-796, section VIII, pages 83 to 98.
Now that is interesting, my copy goes from end of Lubrication P81 to start of Engine P147......
Ah, I've just realised I borrowed a copy of TM9-796 from someone and only copied the sections relevent to my M1 Series 4.
The other (complete) manual I have is for the M1 Series 1 and 2, TM9-795, which is closer to the Series 4 (which doesn't seem to have a manual of its own? :confused:). This gives an inventory of 2 x 60" crowbars loose in body.
Anyway, I haven't even got the engine out yet, let alone put any paint on anything, so I won't be catching you up that's for sure :-D
Keep up the pace!!
centi521
24-05-2009, 14:16
nice work !
andy mccarthy
04-07-2009, 20:33
great restoration we met at astle park last sunday im the guy with the diamond t 969 wrecker,thats taken 17 years to restore .your steaming ahead by my standards,its taken me all week to find your thread ,computers are not my scene.you have got lots more patience than i have,i would be to eager to get the engine running and forget to take photos.my advice would be to keep up the pace while your still keen and dont buy anything else untill you finnish your present resto.unlike myself keep up the good work andy
great restoration we met at astle park last sunday im the guy with the diamond t 969 wrecker,thats taken 17 years to restore .your steaming ahead by my standards,its taken me all week to find your thread ,computers are not my scene.you have got lots more patience than i have,i would be to eager to get the engine running and forget to take photos.my advice would be to keep up the pace while your still keen and dont buy anything else untill you finnish your present resto.unlike myself keep up the good work andy
Thanks Andy,
Already made the fatal mistake. I've a Land Rover 101 in pieces in the garage that hasn't progressed in the ten months I've had the Ward La France.
I posted a few photo's of motors at Astle park including your very nice Diamond T on his thread.
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=13627
Been a while since I last posted any updates but I have been making steady progress.
Got the rear axle brakes reassembled. Had to make new clevis pins for some of the brake mechanism as I couldn't buy any long enough :-(
Had to make one new backing washer for S cam.
Also had to make a couple of new anchor pins for brakes shoes, due to being seized and damaged on removal.
One of the hub oil seals and it's land was badly worn.
Got a new leather oil seal made up and fitted a speedi sleeve over the original land to give a nice new surface for the seal to run on.
Had a few half shaft gaskets to re-make. Then finally got it back on it's wheels about 6 weeks ago.
My friend at DJM engineering had finished his extension to his unit so I was allowed room inside. Lucky as I doubt I'd have made much progress at all the last six weeks or so with the weather we've had.
Ward La France Compressor truck.
berna2vm
04-09-2009, 18:52
Looking good.
centi521
04-09-2009, 19:02
looks very good :D
Old Bill
06-09-2009, 21:11
Yes, it's coming on well. It is a great morale booster to get it back on its wheels, too!
Steve
Grasshopper
15-10-2009, 05:47
Hi Norman, just been catching up on this thread, looking very good. ISTR (from a trip to Army cars) that the tool box fitted to the front left of the body is apparently still made by Snap On if thats any help.
Vince
Hi Norman, just been catching up on this thread, looking very good. ISTR (from a trip to Army cars) that the tool box fitted to the front left of the body is apparently still made by Snap On if thats any help.
Vince
Oh great, a mortgage required to purchase something from Snap-on :-(
Don't suppose you know the product number?
Can't seem to find anything similar on their web-site.
Grasshopper
23-10-2009, 07:47
Tony may remember what it was. I was suffering from Ward-blindness by that point of the day and couldn't feel my legs from my feet to my knees as it was so cold in there warehouse!
Sorry no, I was in a state of shock too, just couldn't take it all in.
Can I be cheeky and suggest - if anyone has an original box - if they could please post a photo of it we could forward it to Snap-On with the dimensions and see what comes of it. May be a U.S. market only item, but they should be able to source one or two for us......
This is the sort of thing we're looking for from the TM:-
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14942&stc=1&d=1256319707
It's got four drawers to the front in a very unusual arrangement. A particularly deep top section with lift up tray hinged with the lid. Also a drop down flap to the front to cover the drawers rather than the usual type these days attached to the lid.
Well done. Over to Snap-On! I can get the length from the body aperture, we can guess the height and depth.
I'd be a bit surprised if it was still current, but you never know. Looks expensive doesn't it!
Looks expensive doesn't it![/SIZE]
Doesn't everything with the words, Snap-on, on?
Bit more work on the truck over the last couple of weekends.
Some of you may have noticed the air tanks previously held in with cable ties. This was because someone had cut throught the lower brakets for securing them to the chassis.
So time to make some more and rivet them in place.
A point that had been bothering me for some time was the fuel tank. It seemed to be hitting the body side at the front end and sat too low at the rear. Also the securing straps at the rear were a bit of a bodge.
We modified the tank bracket to drop the front edge of the tank down away from the body and I made new threaded rods from 1/2 bright round.
Next it was time to take a look at the cab body work. The lower cab sides have been dented, presumably from lying on the ground. The offside panel also had a poor brazed repair to the lower edge.
Removing the side panels also meant removing the back panel.
The back panel doen't need any work, but I noticed to bolts missing from the centre support bracket and no corresponding holes in the cab panel.
Getting home yesterday I read Centi521's blog on the Swiss ward restoration and it immediately hit me that my panels were wrong.
Compare the photo below with my side panel above.
Has someone put a GMC cab on your WLF perhaps?
I can only assume that the cab panels fitted to my vehicle are from a GMC 353 soft cab or simlilar truck hence the straight bottom line. Perhaps someone else will better be able to identify them.
My panels will now be modified extensive repair was required to the offside anyway and some panel beating on the nearside. At least it explains why the fuel tank was hitting the body.
I initially thought the replacement fuel tank had been made incorrectly, but measuring against the other side original tank yielded no measurable differences.
then I thought the support bracket was wrong so modified that.
Now thanks to a post on here I finally realise the bodywork is not correct.
42 chevy
08-11-2009, 21:57
Norman;
I thought the open cabs fitted on the GMC, Studabaker , FWD and Ward were all the same. I know the Diamond T open cab is unique to that truck.
John
Norman;
I thought the open cabs fitted on the GMC, Studabaker , FWD and Ward were all the same. I know the Diamond T open cab is unique to that truck.
John
So I was led to believe. But it now seems I've identified a few minor differences. Shouldn't be too much work to modify the side panels though and the rear simply needs two 5/8" holes drilling in.
I also think my floor panels may be missing the holes for the winch selector rods but I'll have to check on that next time.
Old Bill
08-11-2009, 22:33
Hi Norman!
Bit more work on the truck over the last couple of weekends.
Some of you may have noticed the air tanks previously held in with cable ties. This was because someone had cut throught the lower brakets for securing them to the chassis.
So time to make some more and rivet them in place.
How did you do the riveting as the chassis frame looks as if you did them hot? How did you back them up? I must admit that we tend to replace loose rivets with bolts as that is an authorised repair procedure. However, it is nice to do them properly.
Steve
Hi Norman!
How did you do the riveting as the chassis frame looks as if you did them hot? How did you back them up? I must admit that we tend to replace loose rivets with bolts as that is an authorised repair procedure. However, it is nice to do them properly.
Steve
Yes Steve they were done hot, warmed insitu with the oxy-propane torch. Didn't fancy trying to manouvre hot rivets through the bracket and chassis with tongs.
Just used a large piece of round copper bar over the round head, no recess and not too much distortion. The outside is just hammered flat into a countersunk hole in the chassis and finished flush with a grinder.
Old Bill
09-11-2009, 19:39
They look good. It's nice to do them right!
Steve
Normin;
Hope all is well, I know life is differant now with a newborn, :-) my son is almost 12 years old.
I have not even finished my Diamond T and I went and bought a series 2 Ward. It just jumped out and said 'buy me".
Anyways, did you rebuild your front brake chambers (I know you did the rears). Those front chambers look alot differant from the rears. Can you get diaphrams for them.
John Gott
Hi John.
Can't seem to reply to you by private message.
I haven't touched the front chambers. They don't operate with a diaphragm more like a piston with a rubber seal similar to a piston ring I believe. Anyway I've had all the air connected up and running and there are no leaks from the front chambers and they operate smoothly. I may strip them down in the future to inspect the bores though.
Look forward to seeing pictures of your Ward and any updates on the Diamond T.
Progress has been slow on my Ward over the winter. Wanting to blast and paint the cab but not getting the weather at the moment.
All the best with the new project.
Norman.
42 chevy
01-02-2010, 00:59
Norman;
The weather has not been cooperating here (very cold and we just got more snow yesterday (8 inches). I am in the middle of changing out the upper torque arms. Getting those pins out is giving me a hard time, but I will get them out. Iw ill post pictures of the Ward on a new post.
John Gott
Well I've not produced any updates for a while. With the price of scrap being so favourable there was only one thing to do.
Take the gas axe to the Ward La France!
42 chevy
02-08-2010, 21:48
I assume that is your "old' wrecker frame.
John G
I assume that is your "old' wrecker frame.
John G
No actually it is the one I intend to restore. The next set of pictures show just how bad the rot was in the main frame rails. They were worn very thin around the middle. Some of the cross members were very thin and the nuts holding the winch onto the frame were nearly corroded away.
I did after twelve moths of searching manage two find two lengths of 6"x3" Rolled Steel Channel to repair the frame rails. The rear body is now back together and sat back on the truck awaiting strip down of mechanicals then blasting and painting.
I've also been busy with the cab panels. Bottom section of one door panel replaced due to corrosion. All panels blasted and painted. Windscreen frame wire brushed and painted. Just trying to sort out the seat mounting frames and winch selector levers.
Now a few questions for those who own of have extensive knowledge of Ward La France M1A1s.
Firstly the simple one. What type of seal should be fitted between the bottom of the windscreen frame and the bulkhead? There are obvious holes in the top rail of the bulkhead, just not sure if it should be a webbing type seal like on the bonnet edges or a rubber affair.
Next the more complicate question. I have two levers that mount below the seats for selection of winch/crane drives. I'm assuming the two levers I have are correct. One would seem to mount with the pivot below the floor level and the other with the pivot above. My question is do these simply fit direct to the floor? Are there any brackets or stiffeners? Any photographs of the area would be a great help, probably make it clearer than an explanation. I've looked at lots of photo's from others restorations and modifications and I'm still none the wiser.
42 chevy
05-08-2010, 23:10
Normin;
First the wrecker frame. I thougth you had already rebuilt that last year when you removed it from the truck. The cab panels look good and I am glad you figured out the "mystery" of the front cab fitment by the gas tank(s).
About he levers, the 2 Wards I have operarted, I seem to remember they just came thru the seat frame and wer attached to teh truck frame crossmember. Maybe TooTall Mike can chime in on that. Does the ORD 9 offer any help with a skematic?
Looking Good
John G
It is to bloody hot over here to work outside, :nut:so I will enjoy my air condiitoned comfort of my home and look at your pictures.
Markheliops
06-08-2010, 00:26
Hi Norman.
Great thread so far.
The strip in between the windscreen and bulk head is a rubber strip.
Ref the two levers (crane/rear winch and front winch lever).
They are attached to a bracket mounted to and under the cab.
I am up the farm Saturday so shall grab you a pic.
Markheliops
Normin;
First the wrecker frame. I thougth you had already rebuilt that last year when you removed it from the truck. The cab panels look good and I am glad you figured out the "mystery" of the front cab fitment by the gas tank(s).
About he levers, the 2 Wards I have operarted, I seem to remember they just came thru the seat frame and wer attached to teh truck frame crossmember. Maybe TooTall Mike can chime in on that. Does the ORD 9 offer any help with a skematic?
Looking Good
John G
It is to bloody hot over here to work outside, :nut:so I will enjoy my air condiitoned comfort of my home and look at your pictures.
The part of the rear bed rebuilt last year was just the lighter top frame with integral toolboxes. That was when we discovered the extensive corrosion to the main crane frame rails. It was then a wait of twelve months before I could find the obsolete steel section to make a good repair.
Hi Norman.
Great thread so far.
The strip in between the windscreen and bulk head is a rubber strip.
Ref the two levers (crane/rear winch and front winch lever).
They are attached to a bracket mounted to and under the cab.
I am up the farm Saturday so shall grab you a pic.
Markheliops
Thanks Mark.
I thought just mounting them to the floor would be too weak and some sort of bracket or stiffener must be involved.
Markheliops
08-08-2010, 16:51
Now a few questions for those who own of have extensive knowledge of Ward La France M1A1s.
Next the more complicate question. I have two levers that mount below the seats for selection of winch/crane drives. I'm assuming the two levers I have are correct. One would seem to mount with the pivot below the floor level and the other with the pivot above. My question is do these simply fit direct to the floor? Are there any brackets or stiffeners? Any photographs of the area would be a great help, probably make it clearer than an explanation. I've looked at lots of photo's from others restorations and modifications and I'm still none the wiser.
Hi Norman
Pic of the bracket you asked about - sorry about the quality - mobile phone and it's under the cab. Hope it helps.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u233/Markheliops/Ward%20Cummins%20Conversion/pics004.jpg
Markheliops
Thanks Mark!
That more or less confirms my assumptions. One lever pivoted under floor and one above. Do the brackets then sit directly above each other, sandwiching the floor plate.32737
Don't suppose you have a picture showing the slots in the floor from above. My floor panel only has one large slot but I suspect it is a GMC CCKW floor panel meant for a single winch lever. My seat riser also has no slot in it.
supertrack
15-08-2010, 12:48
A picture come form an WARD
32811
Thanks Supertrack.
Looks like I've a few less holes in my floor. Presumably down to it being GMC again.
The most worrying one now is that I don't have the large hole were I've now discovered a battery tray drops in to set the battery below floor level. I'm now part way through making new seat box/risers and not entirely sure they're tall enough to clear my battery if it sits on a flat floor.
supertrack
16-08-2010, 19:52
a friend have this for the battery
i make something look like this but i don't know realy who is the good box ?
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