Antar back to the road

[antarmike]

Okay, the Antar is dead. Clutch plates are located (subject to confirmation) but the flywheel, Pressure plate, and intermediate plate will all need facing/ Metal spraying/ facing, but first I have to get to them.

The choice was engine out or roll the gearbox back.

In an Antar both are major jobs. I had the Engine out 4 years ago, and I know that it is far from easy, so I have decided to draw the gearbox backwards.

This will mean taking out sections of the exhaust, big chunks of air braking, The lower half of one cross member, the first propshaft for a start.

Sarted work today and attacked the air braking pipes, and valves. Also got one end of the exhaust free.

But the Air-braking is a maze
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch003.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch005.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch009.jpg

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch015.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch019.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch030.jpg

[antarmike]

As yet I can't reach an airpipe connection on top of the handbrake reaction valve. Naybe easier when the exhaust is out.

[younggun]

thats more of a maze than the modern stuff ive found colour coded cable ties can help ones way through the maze
this will be an interesting project to follow

nick

[antarmike]

I am relying on lots of photos..

[antarmike]

I am going to have to decide how to move the gearbox back. The Manual says take out batteries and seats, lift cab floor, build a gantry in the cab, resting on the chassis. Use a chain block on a travelling block, and roll the gearbox back.

Plan b is a 3/4 ton capacity transmission jack

Plan c is something welded to a trolley jack nose.

[Stormin]

But the Air-braking is a maze


I wasn't looking forward to plumbing the Air brakes up on the Ward but I feel a whole lot better now I've seen that!!!

What a difference a few years makes to vehicle technology. Makes you wonder how they coped in the field in service. Surely a simpler system would have been better?

[Bodger Baz]

Best of luck to ya fella, thats a big ol' job

Baz

[N.O.S.]

Euclid dumptruck job is similar but a fair bit smaller. Doors both open, gantry built straight through cab and Tirfor winch to take weight of box. If girder is packed to steady forward/aft movement, box can be pulled back without risk of gantry toppling and damaging cab.

Why do they say pack the gantry off chassis rails I wonder? No doubt when on site, all is clear.....

[Richard Farrant]

I am going to have to decide how to move the gearbox back. The Manual says take out batteries and seats, lift cab floor, build a gantry in the cab, resting on the chassis. Use a chain block on a travelling block, and roll the gearbox back.

Plan b is a 3/4 ton capacity transmission jack

Plan c is something welded to a trolley jack nose.

Mike,

Transmission jack sounds better option Mike. You can tilt them if needed, when refitting through a twin plate clutch you do not want to be pushing and shoving as it is easy to damage a clutch plate, then you get drag :shake:.
I used to use on on the 15 speed Fuller Roadrangers, made life easy.
Recollect setting up a gantry in the cab of a Martian gun tractor once, to change a transfer box.

[antarmike]

Sereious setback... The complete clutches I was chasing that Peter Court was supposed to have did exist until a month ago, when they were weighed in for scrap....I should have looked at the clutch earlier.....

All the likely scrap yards deny any knowlwdge, and they say scrap is moving so fast they would be in India or China now...

[younggun]

sorry to hear of your set back mike hope u can seek out another

nick

[antarmike]

It is now a case of rebuilding what I have got, (refacing, remachining etc...) Oh well...

[Grasshopper]

Sorry to hear your tale of woe.

I managaged to erect an engine hoist in the cab of my old bus bodied matador when i did the ckutch on it. I also know what a pain removing transmissions is, having recently done Mikes WLF transfer box. Loads of stuff was in the way and had to be removed.

[Enigma]

I've got a lot of respect for people who tackle big vehicles like a Antar!
I was annoyed enough to work on a Dodge clutch...

Hope you'll get it sorted.

[antarmike]

Got two sections of exhaust pipe out the way last night. Stll can't reach an airpipe on top of the handbrake reaction valve...

[sirhc]

It is now a case of rebuilding what I have got, (refacing, remachining etc...) Oh well...

Mike,

I work for a company which does metal spraying in Lincoln if you get really stuck.

Chris

[antarmike]

I have been warned of metal spraying. Someone I know had it done on a clutch, and metal became detached in service. In theory I can skim all the wear faces by a total thickness equal to the removable packers, and assemble the clutch without these packers and I will in effect be positioning the release bearing in exactly the same place. This of course only gives me one clutch life, instead of two, but it will be a lot cheaper.

But Thanks for the offer. And I am sure not all metal sprayers do the same quality work, so maybe the poor sod who had the metal break away was just unlucky in which firm he chose.

[antarmike]

I now have clutch plates, c/o Peter Court...

[AndyFowler]

Well done Mike ! Took a bit of tracking down I imagine :sweat:! Peter Court seems to have been a bit of a top bloke !

[ArtistsRifles]

I now have clutch plates, c/o Peter Court...

Good news Mike!! Now the fun begins :)

[N.O.S.]

I have been warned of metal spraying....... I am sure not all metal sprayers do the same quality work, so maybe the poor sod who had the metal break away was just unlucky in which firm he chose.

You're probably right there. I had some 85mm dia. excavator boom pins done (through a third party) - lasted just a few days. Re-done properly, they saw the machine out (8 years). Perhaps a case of not enough pre-heating, especially with big stuff? I'd always consider it as an option, but would need to know the firm knew what they were doing.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog001.jpg
Some of the airbraking out of the way, inter-gearbox prop shaft out, and the lower half of the cross member taken out. This lower section has to come out to drop the propshaft.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog006.jpg

The gearbox will have to go back just over 12 inches. It can only do that if the output flange on the back of the gearbox is pulled from the output shaft. The flange is too big to go through the cutout in the cross member.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog013-1.jpg
This propshaft is small compared to the one that runs from the Aux Box to the first bogey axle.

[antarmike]

Trial offering up of High lift Pallet truck, to gearbox shows what has still to come out. The Cross member that carries the Exhaust support plate has to come out, and that means more air braking pipes have to go.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog009.jpg

[antarmike]

With this out it is clear one of the Exhust pipes running to the silencers has to go.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog014.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog015.jpg

[antarmike]

And I have just busted a 3/4" AF reversible ratchet combination Spanner (gearwrench) I had already used a breaker bar to get the bolt moving, and was only winding a Nyloc of the thread when the bludy thing broke.

[Stormin]

Have you bought the high lift pallet truck specially for the job?
Looks just the ticket.

[antarmike]

I have a use for it afterwards so I thought it might be worth a try. really it is a bit too long. It has to be in the right place, too far forward and it will foul the Drag link and front Axle. Too far back and it will hit the Aux box before the input shaft is clear of the clutch release bearing support tube. I think there is aposition in the middle where it will work.

[AndyFowler]

Nice one Mike ! Thanks for posting , bet that prop took some lifting to ! :sweat:

[antarmike]

gravity helps getting it off. Putting it back on will be harder. The Gearbox rear flange came off without too much of a struggle this morning. Both exhaust pipes are off behind the Box too.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog017.jpg

[antarmike]

Now the gear selectors (which both sit on the Main Gearbox) and the selector shaft that runs between the boxes have to come off.

A further setback has been found. The Clutch operating arm, that fits onto the Cross shaft through the bell housing has significant wear on the slines. Whether this is the splines on the shaft or the internal spline on the lever I don't know but some sort of fix will be required.

[antarmike]

Gear levers came out without incident.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog025.jpg

[antarmike]

It is now clear that the Clutch Air cylinder and the reaction valve that controls it need to be removed before the gearbox can move backwards.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog026.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog028.jpg
The clutch operating arm lies just above the front spring shackle bolt. to the right of this is the air assisted clutch reaction valve.reaction

[Stormin]

That clutch operating mechanism looks a bit complicated!
Glad it was a bit simpler on my Ward La France.
What's the can of polish for next to the gear levers? Surely it's a bit early for shining things up.

[antarmike]

I have the Air cylinder off now, and i think that the reaction valve can stay, now the airpipe and 90 degree elbow are off the side.

[R Cubed]

Glad to see steady progress. Errr are you keeping detailed pics of where all the bits came from, hope so, good luck and keep going with the pics ect. Great disassembly blog.

[antarmike]

Photo's are as much for my information, as they are intended for the board...It should be pretty straightforward to work out where things go back, and so far I have only broken tools and seized nuts and bolts.....

[R Cubed]

Have you ever got this involved under it as you are now, watch out for those HEAVY bits as well. Good luck with the pallet truck.

[antarmike]

I have changed to engine, that has been the biggest job so far. And it was knowing what was involved in that that led me to take the gearbox out to get to the clutch, rather than the engine. I am not sure I have saved any work.

[antarmike]

Today I had an hour or two spare.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog029.jpg
Started to build up a frame to stop the gearbox toppling over on the pallet truck. The upright box sections are about 10mm from the gearbox and screws wind in to grip the box top and bottom. This should allow me to re-alighn the Adaptor plate with the studs as the gearbox goes back on. In a loosen one, tighten the opposite side kind of way.
The front of the box sits on a screw thread, that opperates between the two front 50x50 box sections that span the pallet truck. This will allow me back and forth rocking to help with lining up again.

I still have some more work to do on this arrangement
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog030.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog032.jpg

The floor and bulkhead cover are out to get to the Bell housing/ adaptor bolts...
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog035.jpg
I am a little concerned that the Selector shaft, coming out of the gearox selector cover is going to foul the Cross member when the gearbox rolls back a foot.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog037.jpg
I had planned to drop the box to the floor before removing the clutch. It now seems I will have to come out with the gearbox at the roll-back height.
Note in the last shot just to the right and above the end of the Aux box selector shaft, a cross member/ floor support has been crudely gas-axed out. This I presume was done by Thorneycrofts themselves, when they went out to RAF Mildenhall to change the First gear, gearwheel, that had lost a trooth. If it was them who did it it was a warranty job, and it doesn't say much for the RAF sighning off the job that they accepted the Antar back into service with a floor support gas axed out and not replaced!!!

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog041.jpg
Gearbox is out. Pallet truck did the job brilliantly.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog042.jpg
clutch release bearing is seized. (was fine last time I had it in my hands.
Got good access to clutch, which is now off too.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog043.jpg

[antarmike]

One clutch plate is fooked but worse problem with the intermediate plate which is beyond repair,
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog045.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog044.jpg

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog046.jpg
The intermediate plate has split radially anf sprung open, and this had jammed in the Clutch cover. The sharp edge of the split has ripped the lining off the driven plate, on the pressure plate side of the intermediate plate.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarblog047.jpg
the split is about 1/16" wide at the centre and 1/8" at the periphery of the plate. I am now in desperate need of one of these.

[Stormin]

Is there any other truck that uses the same intermediate plate or is it a visit to a machine shop to get one made?
Doesn't look to complex to make so shouldn't cost the earth if you find the right man.
Is the pressure plate O.K.?
Take it you're dealing with nasty old asbestos dust from that failure given the age of the vehicle. :shake:
At least it shouldn't be asbestos on the new linings.

[antarmike]

I am still trying to find a plate, there are a few possibilities. I am talking to a comany that rebuilts Aveliong Barfords dump trucks, that use a twin 18 inch clutch, but haven't ruled out all hope of finding a good second hand one ex Antar.

Old driven plates were asbestos. I have the option of relining these, but I have two ols "new" asbestos lined driven plates that I might use. The Asbestos linings are likely to outperform, and outlast thw asbestos free alternatives.

[antarmike]

For those amongst us who have not come across a twin plate clutch yet...
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/02-11-2008102152.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/02-11-2008102437.jpg

[R Cubed]

The Antar uses a Meteorite engine ? would the driven plate be the same as the Meteor. My one has an intermediate dive plate but cant get at it to measure.
I am sure the clutch discs are about 18 inches if my memory serves me right.....

I think.

[antarmike]

My Antar uses a Rolls Royce C6T Turbocharged Straight sis diesel, but yes the early Antars with the Meteorite engine used basically the same clutch. I have tried to find a mark 1/11 Antar being broken, or anyone who might have spares but no joy yet.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/03-11-2008064952.jpg
Heres the Meteorite clutch arrangement.....same intermediate plate...

[antarmike]

The bad news is the flywheel wearplate has been X-rayed and the cracks are too deep to salvage it by re-facing, so we are now looking at re-manufacturing that part also....

[antar]

Mike,
When you say "flywheel wear plate" is that a seperate part ? The reason I ask is that I was looking for something in the shed the other day (where the 18" clutch plates used to be stored) and found a steel disk all wrapped up in the usual sticky wrapper which looks like a face plate out of a flywheel. If it is let me have the dimensions and I will check it.
John.

[antarmike]

Even worse news, the Estimate for the machining and parts for the clutch now stands at £2242.50 +Vat.

Erm....is it time to buy a jeep instead?

[AndyFowler]

even worse news, the estimate for the machining and parts for the clutch now stands at £2242.50 +vat.

Erm....is it time to buy a jeep instead?

never ! At least vat is a bit less now !:(

[antarmike]

about tuppence lass!

[catweazle]

Even worse news, the Estimate for the machining and parts for the clutch now stands at £2242.50 +Vat.

Erm....is it time to buy a jeep instead?
At those prices you could be a boat owner Mike,renamed mine scrapheap challenge.
There must be another way:shocked:CW

[antarmike]

I've done the boat owning bit, I am not going back there!

[6 X 6]

Even worse news, the Estimate for the machining and parts for the clutch now stands at £2242.50 +Vat.


And what would the cost be for having this machining done for cash ? We are now coming up to the quietist time in what will be a very, very quiet year for machine shops. I really can't believe that there isn't a competent engineering company where all, or some of, these components could be made, via the back door, for cash and at a fraction of the +vat figure you have been quoted.
£500 will buy an awful lot of machining if the 500 quid is going straight into some bloke's trouser pocket.

There's a highly skilled machine shop just up road from me that, from my past experience, would probably only charge £2242.50 in cash to recreate an entire Antar. There must be similar places near you. I hope this post sounds helpful and supportive.

[antarmike]

The cost is in having patterns made for a casting of a new flywheel amongst other things, then fully machining. It is a complete re-manufacture of a lot of parts. The Intermediate plate isn't that ridiculous at 250 quid...

[6 X 6]

The cost is in having patterns made for a casting of a new flywheel amongst other things, then fully machining. It is a complete re-manufacture of a lot of parts. The Intermediate plate isn't that ridiculous at 250 quid...

Yeah, oh well, I'm sure you know what you're doing but it does sound very expensive. Maybe Zsa Zsa Gabor will be doing some of the work hence the cost. I suppose it's only £30 a week spread over two years. Or, if all 2,398 forum members chipped in £1.25 each in return for having a go of the Antar when it's fixed, that would raise the £3,000 but at the end of 2,398 nutters driving around in your Antar it you'd probably be back needing another new clutch.

[antarmike]

Got the phone call today that my clutch is ready for collection. However they have not been able to reclaim the operating Arms and thrust pads/ through bolts. I am going to have to do that myself. (this is why I talked my boss into buying a brand new 2 Axis DRO turret mill! At Last I get some use from it myself) Sneaky or what....?

[Stormin]

Got the phone call today that my clutch is ready for collection. However they have not been able to reclaim the operating Arms and thrust pads/ through bolts. I am going to have to do that myself. (this is why I talked my boss into buying a brand new 2 Axis DRO turret mill! At Last I get some use from it myself) Sneaky or what....?


With kit like that available you could have had a go at making some of the other parts as well. :-)
Glad to here it should all be coming together. Bit of a hit out of next years fuel budget though.

[antarmike]

Its cost 6 times my annual Antar fuel budget to get as far as I am so far....never mind a hit out of it!!!

[antarmike]

With kit like that available you could have had a go at making some of the other parts as well. :-)
Glad to here it should all be coming together. Bit of a hit out of next years fuel budget though.

Its been pattern making, castings, New springs, metal spraying, internal and external grinding, A lathe with a 20 1/2" swing...(which I haven't got. New release bearing steady post, I'll copy the spec and put it up on here but I ain't showing the cost, that's secret or you will all call me mad.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/workdone.jpg

Ouch!

[N.O.S.]

They're a good bunch at Marton Dump Trucks, especially for people who still run ancient dumpers.....

[abn deuce]

No I dont think any would call you mad . Its the price of having a vehicle road worthy again . Its not likely to ever need as much work again as most of it original wear came from moving those Huge doors .

[daz76]

At least you'll know everything has been sorted. Unfortunately there's no real alternative is there? Really hope you have a great season with it when you get it all back together- if you can still afford to go anywhere....!:cry:

[antarmike]

They're a good bunch at Marton Dump Trucks, especially for people who still run ancient dumpers.....

No they are not, I have today driven a 300 mile round trip to pick up the clutch. The intermediate plate they have made doesn't fit in the slotted locating ring. not by a thou or two but by 5 to 6 fooking millimetres. I have had to leave it with them to sort out. I am far from happy with them at the moment.

[Stormin]

Not very good is it. Especially if they had all the bits to work from and test assemble.

A good outfit would be sending the bits to you by carrier for nowt, save you any more inconvenience.

[antarmike]

They are doing that. I took the parts to them to explain exactly what the problems were and what I wanted doing. I ttok down a number of loose parts. I went to collect the clutch to ensure everything I left was still there. They have said they will sent the intermediate plate and the slotted locating ring by carrier at no cost to me, but that isn't the point. I don't feel they have done very well.

[antarmike]

What I have brought back
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch006.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch007.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch008.jpg

[rbrtcrowther]

Go steady lifting that lot back into your truck! I would make sure someone else is about just incase:sweat:Don't fancy that lot dropping on me.

[antarmike]

The flywheel is the most difficult part to get back on....I did nearly drop that getting it off!

[antarmike]

They're a good bunch at Marton Dump Trucks, especially for people who still run ancient dumpers.....

Complete and utter Bankers, that lot, Nowt but a load of Bankers, By which I mean they are very happy to take my cash, but offer an appalling service.

The intermediate plate arrived back today after they finished the machining they forgot last time. The three lugs they were machining to my old pattern, which measures 69.60 mm have been made to 67.83, 68.88 and 68.13.

Utterley useless, so I have lost another days pay waiting on the delivery, and I am now wasting the rest of the day waiting for the plate to be picked up to take it back to the for their input as to how to salvage this mess.

Complete and Utter BANKERS....

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch005.jpg
It looks very pretty, pity it isn't the right fooking size

[gritineye]

Unforgivable behavior and work, how did they think they would get away with it? Especially as they knew you would be checking everything even closer after the last c*ck up!

[antarmike]

They have balanced the plate, but it is too loose in the locating ring so it just moves around. Balancing means nothing, because it will never be in ther same place twice!

[Snapper]

Mike,

I think you need to write a feature on all this when it is done and the old girl is running as close to as you would like as you can get. If you can stomach going over it all again I'd welcome the chance to read it all in a Adrian Mole diary style. I hope your mohawk hasn't fallen out. You deserve a bloody medal.

MB

[6 X 6]

I'm sorry to read that you have had these undeserved set backs. In my experience the most prevalent human quality I encounter is incompetence. It seems to be everywhere and I have an endless fund of similar stories to yours. When asking for something to be made I always provide good quality drawings, or a pattern, and talk through the job until I'm sure, I hope, that what's required is completely understood and they STILL cock it up. It's unbelievable.

Not in every case, but fairly often, the problem stems from the job being passed on from the person one originally discussed it with to the person who actually does the work. A sort of 'Chinese Whispers' takes over but how can that be case when there are drawings, or a full scale pattern, to follow ?

Mike, you will prevail but no one needs all this aggravation.

[antarmike]

And the mating part to check the fit!

[N.O.S.]

They're a good bunch at Marton Dump Trucks, especially for people who still run ancient dumpers.....

That is most unfortunate Mike. I've never had any machining done by them, but they have been good for spares and in-house reconditioned items (for machines they have had long experience with admittedly).

In the light of your experiences I am happy to have the word "especially" removed from my statement above, but I certainly would not expect you to agree with it, given your problems.

Hope you at least end up with a servicable clutch assembly out of it all, even though nothing will undo the hassle element. How did you come to be dealing with them - was the clutch assembly similar to a dumptruck unit?

[rbrtcrowther]

I had trouble with the engineering company who made the mould for my metalastic coupling. Took them nearly a year to get roung to doing it and then it had to go back because the rubber company said there was no way to remove the coupling after moulding it! Then atfer all that the bloody things are a 16th of an inch smaller cos they failed to alow for the rubber contracting when they cool down. And this engineering company make moulds for the rubber company all the time. They even had the coupling to measure from. Then they charged me £400 od!:argh: And I still have to machine the couplings to fit. It would have been cheaper to buy an old milling machine and do it myself

[catweazle]

Your not alone,speedy cables took two years to make me matching oil pressure gauges to match the originals,then said they couldnt match the senders 24v.then said they had when i refused them.They still dont work:argh:Speedy :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[antarmike]

That is most unfortunate Mike. I've never had any machining done by them, but they have been good for spares and in-house reconditioned items (for machines they have had long experience with admittedly).

In the light of your experiences I am happy to have the word "especially" removed from my statement above, but I certainly would not expect you to agree with it, given your problems.

Hope you at least end up with a servicable clutch assembly out of it all, even though nothing will undo the hassle element. How did you come to be dealing with them - was the clutch assembly similar to a dumptruck unit?

Recommended by Dave "Rotinoff" Weedon. A lot of Aveling Barfords use the same 18" twin Plate Borg and Beck, And they said thae had remanufactured Intermediaste plates for these on several occasions.

[Energumen]

Hi Mike, as a now retired, rank amateur in the field of mechanical engineering and restoration, I am compelled to congratulate you, not only on your obvious knowlege and improvisation, but mostly, on your undaunted application.

It must be said, I would probably have given up and sought a buyer at an early stage.

Well done you.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch010.jpg

The Clutch release bearing operating arms, being machined flat after building up badly worn area.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch011.jpg
Milling machine is a Pacific Rim copy of a Bridgeport, Cheap, but it does the job.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch013.jpg

The pair of arms back to back on a short shaft, with a common keyway, made up for this job, being drilled and reamed through to take the pins.

[antarmike]

This is what the clutch brake is supposed to look like according to the User handbook.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutchbrake.jpg
I need to pull the wheel of to change the seal on the input shaft to the gearbox.

[antarmike]

this is what I have got
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch017.jpg
they have taken a much smaller clutch brake, off a gearbox with less inertia, and welded the spokes of a bored out bigger brake, to the outside diameter of the small brake.

I have to use a puller, but I am not sure I want to pull from the outside, cos of the stress on the welds. (and the legs of the puller need to be 16 inches long) . I either leave the oilseal, or I make long legs for the puller, that are narrow enough to get into the slots between the two halves to pull from the OD of the small brake wheel.

[antarmike]

Bodges 'R' Us , Basingstoke??

The joys of very limited production run vehicles????

[ArtistsRifles]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch011.jpg
Milling machine is a Pacific Rim copy of a Bridgeport, Cheap, but it does the job.

Got to admit - I envy you the access to the machine tools!!! I spent many happy hours playing with universal mills and dividing heads when I was a toolmaker!! :) :) :)

[antarmike]

Not big enough to get the Intermediate plate on though, or I would have sorted it myself.

[philb]

.... I either leave the oilseal, or I make long legs for the puller, that are narrow enough to get into the slots between the two halves to pull from the OD of the small brake wheel.

I guess: claw-special, legs-long, puller-one in number, for the use of..., coming up then? Looking forward to seeing a photo of it - and the rest of the shiny clutch stuff, when you get them to sort it out. Keep up the good work, you have moral, if not tangible, support!

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch021-1.jpg
Making a long leg puller took half an hour! Clutch brake wheel is now off, and I have the Oilseal out. Now to look for a replacement.

[younggun]

an oil seal should not be hard to source should it mike ? nice little puller u have made there . i take it that is your matador in the background

[antarmike]

That is the Douglas in the Background.

[antarmike]

Operating levers in place for a trial measurement that they are balanced., Behind this the oil seal is replaced, and the clutch brake drum is re-fitted.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch046.jpg

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch043.jpg
PROGRESS!!!!

Got the intermediate plate back, and early indications are that the fit is good.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch041.jpg
The plate drops nicely into the Locating ring, this time and the play is minimal.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch042.jpg
There is one position where it is a little tight, (I mean if one lug is okay in either of two slots, it is slightly tight fitted into the third.) But overall I think I can go with it this time!

[younggun]

glad to see they got it right this time mike hope the refit goes well .

[antarmike]

I have left the flywheel off at the moment, so I can do a trial build up on the ground, before I do it for real. Oh, I have got the Input shaft pilot bearing back in the crank also. Forgot to mention that.

[Chrisg]

Good luck Mike lets hope they got it right

[antarmike]

They have lost the hardened steel buttons the adjuster rods that position the intermediate plate when it releases, are supposed to push against.!!!!

[catweazle]

Mike sorry you are having all this agro but this the sort of thing i come across all the time.good job its not 1939.

[antarmike]

I have found some silver steel at the back of a cupboard so I am going to have to make them myself sometime. Got today off work, my insides are playing up, but providing I stay in sight of a toilet, I should be OK....(not that you need to know that)

[croc]

doesn't sound like a boilersuit day then Mike.... glad to see things are moving in the right direction with the Antar though.

[antarmike]

I am not in my LongJohns either....

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch047.jpg
Buttons made.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch048.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch049.jpg
and hardened, tempered and fitted to intermediate plate.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/antarclutch050.jpg
and checking the operating (adjusting) pins fall in the right place relative to locating ring flange.

Good forward progress.. If only my R's would settle I would be a happy man today!

[rbrtcrowther]

Best make sure your bums back in order before you lift that lot back in. All that straining..... you might blow an o-ring!:rofl:

[Richard Farrant]

Mike,

I think all this trouble would have given me the sh*ts too, best of luck, hope to see you back on the road this Summer.

[rbrtcrowther]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[antarmike]

No pictures today, but the flywheel went on this morning, and was checked for run out with a DTI.

And I now have made (modified) the clutch aligning tool I used at the time of the engine change, into something a little more user friendly.

This afternoon has seen the locating ring, intermediate plate, two driven plates, and the Clutch cover go back onto the antar. Though not in that order!!

I want to run up the engine, to check the balance of this lot, before I lift the gearbox back into place.

I don't think there is any chance of the Clutch plates moving if I run the engine up, without the splines of the gearbox input shaft, going through them. The clutch should be under full pressure and hold them regardless, but there is a creeping doubt as to the wisdom of running the engine at this stage.

Oh and the interediate plate release stop screws have been adjusted and locked off.

Equally I don't want to put the gearbox back on and then find that Marton Dumpers have messed up the balancing...I think I will sleep on this one....

[Stormin]

No chance of fixing your aligning tool in place during the test run to eliminate clutch plate movement?
Appreciate it'd have to be very well fixed to avoid flying out and damaging expensive new components.

[Stormin]

On second thoughts I think I'd just run it as is then check the tool slides in again afterwards. Then you know there's been no movement.
The clutch plates can't move enough to cause damage can they?

[rbrtcrowther]

Ive run alot of big engines up with no splines in the clutch plate (some of them just sat on the floor vibrating round the shed!) with no problems. However your clutch is a big old lump. Mabey a short run at low revs first and recheck alignment then build up to full chat in stages. If you have a balance problem its most likley to occur at a certain number of revs. Seems like a lot of work to pull the box out if it is bad:cry:

[antarmike]

Trouble is, i was stuck for space to get the clutch cover back on past the end of the aligning tool, so I cut the tool off, welded a nut on the end, and made up a screwed shaft to go back into it. When the cover went on I just had an inch of the tool, sticking beyond the rear friction plate. With the cover on the tool was 3 inches inside the clutch. I then screwed my threaded end back into the stub of a tool, and pulled it out.

As a result of the cutting welding etc, on the tool, I am not sure that is anything like balanced, which is why I want to leave it out of the equation.....

I also have a tool if I force it back in again, that could come apart as a withdraw it, and I would have to strip back again to get the parts out....

[rbrtcrowther]

Mmm:undecided:mmm..... See your problem.. Bit of a possible no win situation. Run the engine without the shaft in and risk having to strip the clutch out a re center it.. or put it all back together and find you truck falls to bits at full throttle and have to take it all to bits again.:embarrassed:

[Stormin]

Mike,

Given your luck so far with this project, I'm not surprised your looking to someone else to make the decision, on how to go.
Not sure I'm upto the reponsibilty though sorry. :noyay:

[antarmike]

Ran the engine up Sat morning, only to 1500, no vibration.

Gearbox went back onto bell-housing Sat afternoon, I couldn't manage a whole day today, as I promised to take down a tree for someone, but this afternoon, put Air assist clutch cyinder back on Chassis, set legths of rods, adjusted free pedal movement, and Clutch brake clearance.

I have lashed an air supply to the Clutch reaction valve, to test that all is working, and I have the first section of exhaust back on (Turbo, to rear engine of bell housing adaptor ring.

Clutch seems heavier than I remeber it but Air assist is definitely working. I am putting the extra effort to get the pedal down, being the result of the brand new pressure plate coil springs.

I hope to do a bit most nights this week, but that may be unrealistic.

I am averaging 10 1/4 hour days at the moment building chain trenchers. I have one almost finished ( no 17) and another one to build (no 18) then I have another batch of 4 or 5 to follow. Doesn't leave a lot of energy at the end of the day for Antaring.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/clutch006.jpg

[younggun]

glad to see things are couming togeather mike :thumbsup:

[pikeymatt]

nice to hear it going back toughter ok:)

[antarmike]

Yes thanks folks, I reckon this has been a good weekend.

[abn deuce]

Are these machines you mfg. mounted to the rear of tractors with 3 point hitches ?.Since they are still green machines like other green things here so they would be allowed could you post a pic or two of the completed unit and what its specs are ?

[Stormin]

Mike

I'm intrigued by the chain trencher as well. Looks like the conveyor belt is mounted very low for off loading. Does it deploy to a higher position in use?
Have you built the unit entirely from scratch or modified something else?

Glad to here the Antar is coming back together.
Heavier clutch could be that new and thicker plate is putting more tension on pressure plate springs! :idea:

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/georgesanders001.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/georgesanders002.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/sheltontrencher017.jpg
Tractor mounted, 45 HP to 120 HP tractor, this model digs to 1 metre deep and from 102 to 175mm wide.

Yes that's my day job at the moment

[antarmike]

Last shot shows early version with 3 metre conveyer to discharge into tip trailer. We are doing one with short conveyer, which drops arings just to the side of the trench, for easy blading back in after pipe has gone in.

These are intended primarily for sports turf drainage, and the norm is the long conveyer to completely take soil away from trench, into trailer, for dumping, then trech will have porous pipe, topped with lightweight aggregate back fill. Hopefully trench one day, and play the next.

Designed and built from scratch. I buy in the hydraulic cylinders which get modified, spool valve, hydraulic motor for conveyer, and an italian gearbox, the bearings, chain, cutters and sprocket, but everything else really I fabricate.

[AndyFowler]

Last shot shows early version with 3 metre conveyer to discharge into tip trailer. We are doing one with short conveyer, which drops arings just to the side of the trench, for easy blading back in after pipe has gone in.

These are intended primarily for sports turf drainage, and the norm is the long conveyer to completely take soil away from trench, into trailer, for dumping, then trech will have porous pipe, topped with lightweight aggregate back fill. Hopefully trench one day, and play the next.

Designed and built from scratch. I buy in the hydraulic cylinders which get modified, spool valve, hydraulic motor for conveyer, and an italian gearbox, the bearings, chain, cutters and sprocket, but everything else really I fabricate.

Nice one Mike , Glad its all coming together for you and impressed with your fabrications ! :-D

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/georgesanders021.jpg
long conveyer.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/sheltontrencher020.jpg
and wheel trencher (tractor mounted) uses same gearbox, and produces secondary drainage channels 25mm Wise and 560mm Deep.

[abn deuce]

:tup:: I see now , good show ! Hope the orders keep heading your way .

[Stormin]

Thanks Mike,
Very nice pieces of equipment you're building there!

[antarmike]

End of a saga.... Drove the Antar out of the shed, and around the yard, and parked it up in its proper place in the shed.

All seems okay, but I have yet to put inspection panels back on the bell housing, and put the floor and transmission tunnel back in the cab.

And sort out the bent back mudguard and support braket, broken light etc, that happened in the jack knife, trying to get into the layby when the clutch finally went. 2nd Sept 2008!

Its taken just over six months, most of that saving up, and waiting for Marton Dump trucks to do the work to my satisfaction, but as I say I hope I am only a couple of days away from being ready for the new season.

Thanks everybody for your support, encouragement and suggestions.

[6 X 6]

Well done Mike. Excellent news.

[AndyFowler]

Well done mate ! I look forward to seeing you both at GDSF :-D

[madrat]

Good Job Mike! A friend of mine was looking to buy exactly what you build for drainage work, I shall show him what you are doing, I'm sure he will be very interested.

Look forward to seeing the Antar in the flesh this summer,

Duncan

[Energumen]

Hi Mike, well done indeed, I am increasingly impressed with the engineering skill and ingenuity of you guys.

[croc]

Great news Mike, good to see that all the frustration, expense, effort and hours are paying off. See you in the Playpen :-D

[goldfinger]

I have followed your plight with great interest and after watching your Antar in the arena at Dorset last year really felt great sadness at your predicament. I run big trucks myself and know only too well the frustration when they break down. Glad it is all over, will look you up at Dorset,(my mate Andy has the Douglas Tug in the arena) and buy you a Beer, regards,GOLDFINGER.

[antarmike]

I am off to put on a couple of exhaust clamps I forgot at thge W/E, and then the floor is going back in the cab. As I say, during recovery,, trying to back up in the layby, I jacknifed the trailer drawbay into a stay on the mudguard, but when the police have the A34 stopped and are pressuring you to complete the manoevre as quick as possible, these things happen. It was an attempt to get enough room in the layby, that the towtruck could, get into the layby ahead of me to couple up. In hindsight, we should have coupled up in the carraigeway, but its not that hard to straighten, the bend stay.

[ekawrecker]

Well done on your achievement Mike, which seems no mean feat bearing in mind the hurdles you have faced.
I found this on Ebay today-item no 220378263358- just what you need now (not!!), although it might have been handy a little earlier perhaps?

[antarmike]

Cheers, I don't recognise it, but being dated 1958 it will be for the Mk1 Mk2 Antar, which had a totally different clutch arrangement, The clutch being in an air cooled enclosure, bolted to the nain gearbox/ Aux gearbox assembly. The clutch was shaft driven from the back of the Meteorite engine flywheel. Although it uses the same plates, and interediate plate as my clutch, the arrangement is totally different, and this isn't a tool that is any use for my model of Antar, but thanks for pointing it out to me.

[antarmike]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/th_roadrun011-1.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q208/antarmike/?action=view&current=roadrun011-1.flv)

successful road run, clutch bedded in very quickly, and I had to re-adjust free play at pedal after 14 miles. I'll reset the intermediate plate release pins, and clutch brake in the near future.

[goldfinger]

Well done Mike, look forward to seeing the Antar in action at Dorset.

[abn deuce]

seems to be moving at a good speed , its a full lane width vehicle isn't it .

[antarmike]

I have had it up both the grass banks of a country lane at the same time....I can't say how fast I am actually going because of recent Police prosecution from internet video clip, and the fact that under STGO i am only allowed 20, but on a similar road on a private airfield near me I would probably be doing 30 MPH.

[abn deuce]

Never fear I wouldn't report you , as long as you were operating under control which you seemed to be its all good .
Under the STGO rules I m guessing you would have to had traveled the roads you are going to travel with a regular vehicle to check for any problems before making the trip with the Antar .
Seems the lanes and country roads over there do tend to run very narrow , that driving a WC on some back roads/tracks/paths is even a challenge and that a Jeep may take up the entire width .
Nice to see all your hard work and problems are gone for now .