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Ratchet
14-01-2006, 21:24
I’m restoring a 1941 Morris LRC Mark II. I’ve been searching for the proper paint color codes for both the exterior and interior. Anyone out there know what the color codes are for this vehicle?

Thanks

tyler
14-01-2006, 22:04
I get all my paints from RR services but War Paint and Jeffery Engineering use the same supplier, they can get most colours you need, the quality is good also, and postage costs are reasonable.

Hope this helps.

Tyler.

Ratchet
15-01-2006, 01:29
Thanks Tyler for the reply, but the problem isn’t where to get the paint but what color to get. I need the paint color codes or the proper names that I can trace down.

Thanks

fv1609
15-01-2006, 08:38
There are guidelines in Camouflage - Disruptive Painting of Vehicles, Military Training Pamphlet No.20. 1939

For average European backgrounds
Basic colour: Khaki Green No.3
Disruptive colour: Dark Green No.4

For lighter backgrounds
Basic colour: Light Green No.5
Disruptive colour: Khaki Green No.3

More than two colours could be used but no details were given, other than letting the previous coats set. There are some diagrams they are not Mickey Mouse patterns they are spodges very similar today. No requirements to cover corners especially, splodges stretched horizontally especially when viewed from above.

Well there is the difinitive info. Unfortunately none of these colours tie up with the 31 colours in the 1931 BS381 colour standard. But I expect Richard Farrant will be able to give some ideas but he's probably not up yet :wink:

Richard Farrant
15-01-2006, 09:21
Unfortunately none of these colours tie up with the 31 colours in the 1931 BS381 colour standard. But I expect Richard Farrant will be able to give some ideas but he's probably not up yet :wink:

Thanks Clive, I'm up now :)

hi Ratchet,

I see Clive has given you some paint references for early wartime. The often refered to, style of camouflage pattern called Mickey Mouse was not normally used on armoured vehicles although there is bound to be an exception. It all depends on the particular period of wartime that you wish to depict. A lot of the armoured vehicles that I restore are in 1944 onward paint schemes, there is British Standard colour references for these, but paint suppliers in the US will not recognise them.

As for the inside, do you have any traces of original paint, ie. under brackets, etc.? The normal inside colour would be silver, not like aluminium paint, more like a semi matt, so that it did not shine. In some cases, a shade of white was used, there is comment on this, that is was changed to white due to a shortage of pigment for the silver.

If you can come back on the actual period, and theatre of operation, I can narrow it down to a particular colour and if it is one I am using, even send you a colour card that your local paint supplier could match.

Richard

Ratchet
15-01-2006, 12:46
Clive and Richard

Thanks this is what I’m needing! I want to get her as close to original as possible.

I have made many notes on the colors found under brackets – this is some of what I’ve found:

Brackets of and on armor – OD Green
Brackets of and on sheet metal in the engine bay – silver
The engine its self – seems to be more of a Kelly Green
Inside the crew compartment – I’ve found both silver (on most of the brackets) AND green on the inside of the driver’s seat slide. :shock:
I even have some of the original head padding for the driver so I can have that made. :D

I have samples of every US color used in WWII and nothing comes close. I thought if I could get a British number I could use one of several cross reference charts on the web and have the color made.

Thanks for the help

fv1609
15-01-2006, 13:09
As Richard says the crucial thing is defining the era you want to represent. I have found a later publication, Military Training Pamphlet No.46 Part 4A Painting of Mechanical Transport 1941.

"The basic principles laid down apply to the painting of every vehicle. For convenience, two colours only are generally used. For England and Northern Europe the light colour may be Khaki Green No.3 or Standard Camouflage Colour No.2. The dark paint should be Standard Camouflage Colour No.1A"

The diagrams now show quite a diffrent arrangement, with the dark colour on all the roof & cab areas seen from above with coverage of the wings & bonnet. These areas fuse into the sides by splodges, dappled or streaks.

I have quoted chapter & verse as firstly I have a fetish for documents & also it gives some authority rather than my opinion & also it gives you a date. The first document was June 1939, this one is November 1941.

One other thought the traces of paint you can see, are you sure that is as it was because owners sometimes paint their vehicles strange colours :wink:

Richard Farrant
15-01-2006, 13:13
Brackets of and on armor – OD Green
Brackets of and on sheet metal in the engine bay – silver
The engine its self – seems to be more of a Kelly Green

I thought if I could get a British number I could use one of several cross reference charts on the web and have the color made.



Ratchit,

The OD green may be from its latter end of service, not knowing its history.

From the British Standard colour chart BS381c, shade 298 Olive Drab is one used by British Army from 1944 on. The engine colour is probably 216 Eau-de-nil. The silver you could no doubt source, it is not shiny like aluminium paint, more like that used on truck wheels, etc. Maybe Clive has a BS reference for it?

Take a look at this colour chart;
www.indfinspec.demon.co.uk/bs_381c_colour_chart.htm

Do not use these charts for colour matching because they are far from accurate for that purpose. If no one can match to these numbers in the US, I have the above two colours and could do a match card for you.

Richard

fv1609
15-01-2006, 13:31
Metallic colours like silver & gold don't seem to appear in BS systems. Looking at the 1931 BS381 there is nothing like that. Although I see in next edition of 1948 that Silver Grey 628 makes an appearance only to be deleted in 1964.

I agree all charts be they online or printed, only give a rough idea. Someone just sent me an old Trimite chart & Deep Bronze Green looks almost black & it does online.

Richard Farrant
15-01-2006, 13:45
Metallic colours like silver & gold don't seem to appear in BS systems. Looking at the 1931 BS381 there is nothing like that. Although I see in next edition of 1948 that Silver Grey 628 makes an appearance only to be deleted in 1964.

Clive,

I do not have Vocab for paint, H1 I think. If you have a post war one, then that interior silver paint must be listed. The type of paint is special in that it does not harden, to stop spalling if fire upon from outside, but the shade is bound to be of a British Standard.

Richard

fv1609
15-01-2006, 14:03
Yes H1(Part 1) now in COSA, used to be H1(a) in VAOS, why they had to change that I dunno. Anyway I've looked in several editions just says: Fire-Resisting Paint, Paint Finishing, Brushing, Aluminium to DEF STAN 80-9.

Looking in a 1948 FVDD FV Spec 2012, paint for interior metalwork & woodwork paint, Aluminium GS to Spec CS1199 for closed & compartments of armoured vehicles except ACVs.

Painting it on wood is optimistic, I painted some of the missile carriers in the Hornet in 1994 and it STILL hasn't dried :roll:

Richard Farrant
15-01-2006, 15:41
Painting it on wood is optimistic, I painted some of the missile carriers in the Hornet in 1994 and it STILL hasn't dried :roll:

thanks Clive,

I thought there may have been a BS reference, but no problem. It is very similar to a paint I have seen called "silver mist", will try to remember where I've seen it.

Talking about it never drying......when I have been working in old vehicles such as Saracens, etc., which have obviously not been painted for many years, your boots and overalls seemed to pick up a silvery sheen :)

Richard

Ratchet
15-01-2006, 21:18
Call off the dogs!

Thanks to the great help found here, I’ve been able to cross this information to a US Federal Standard Number. Looks like I need FS34098 for the base armor color. Now its off to the paint supply store. :lol:

Thanks for all the help!!!!