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Ok!... now I have a new Fluid Flywheel for my ailing Saracen, I want to fit it!


oily

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Ok!... now I have a new Fluid Flywheel (thanks Jon!!) for my ailing Mk 5 Saracen, and now I want to fit it!

 

Can any kind person out there enlighten me as to how I go about removing the engine, in order for me to fit the new flywheel?... I have some of the EMERS, (a pair of parts books, Hull and Fittings, and Mechanical Parts, the Technical Handbook, and a copy of the Drivers Handbook), from what I can see, this should be a fairly straightforward job, but if I had the right instructions to refer to, I'm sure it'll be a hell of a lot easier!

I have access to fork-lift, and various air-powered garage equipment, but will be working outside, I have most of the handtools that are required, I think.

Does anyone have a copy of the removal/replacement procedure/diagrams, they'd be willing to scan/email, or photocopy/mail to me?

I'm aiming to get it all done and back up and running again before the end of May and 'Overlord Show', at Denmead, Hampshire..... is it possible?, bearing in mind I can spend most afternoons and weekends, working on it.:cry:

 

Kind regards

 

Matt

Edited by oily
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Hi Oily, so close,yet so far! Your best hope is that Richard picks up on the thread. I have gathered some manuals with the help of the forum, i don't remember having anything on removing the engine. There was a site sometime ago where the guy's engine was removed in the middle of nowhere, I'll try to get hold of it for you.

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Hi Oily, I found the address but it no longer works. What a let down. Here it is, maybe you have got better luck. http://www.trackpads.net/sites/heavymetal/index.html . The words: Doug's heavy metal gallery featured here as well, this has also been referred to on this site but still no luck. Finally!!! http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/andjef.html

Edited by montie
added info, added even more info
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I realise the engine doesn't need to come fully out, BUT looking at how the flywheel is constructed, it appears that it has to be split into 2 halves in order to bolt it to the end of the crankshaft, since it shows in the various manuals, that it's held with nuts and bolts, then the fluid drive part is fixed back onto the actual flywheel/ring gear part (lots of nuts and bolts again!).... also it looks like there is a lot of panelwork inside the old thing to remove, to allow access to the bellhousing bolts.... the drivers seat, floor and bulkhed, it would appear!, now where's my 11mm socket and extension bar?:-(

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I realise the engine doesn't need to come fully out, BUT looking at how the flywheel is constructed, it appears that it has to be split into 2 halves in order to bolt it to the end of the crankshaft, since it shows in the various manuals, that it's held with nuts and bolts, then the fluid drive part is fixed back onto the actual flywheel/ring gear part (lots of nuts and bolts again!).... also it looks like there is a lot of panelwork inside the old thing to remove, to allow access to the bellhousing bolts.... the drivers seat, floor and bulkhed, it would appear!, now where's my 11mm socket and extension bar?:-(

 

Oily,

 

You will want to take the engine right out, once you move it away from the gearbox, there is no sense struggling to work on it still in the vehicle, besides, you will find it easier to drain the oil off when out. I cannot see why you would wish to change the whole flywheel, once you have taken the cover assembly off and the driven member inside, there is only a ball race in the flywheel and that is probably in good order, unless the flywheel had run dry.

 

You can put away your metric sockets too, all AF sizes on these vehicles ;)

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Thanks Richard, it goes to show though, that without specialist knowledge like yours on these vehicles, it's a downright minefield of mistakes, not helped by us making assumptions either. Between you guys overthere, you could probably have a oneday workshop at a show on this vehicle! With some (monetary?) contributions, it could probably make it worth your while while imparting and preserving precious knowledge, to be lost for keeps. :angel:

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Hello Montie

 

I have attached some scans from a B series manual . They may not be readable via this method, if you pm me with your email address I will try to email them direct. they relate to the fluid flywheel , not whole engine removal.

 

My advice is to remove the engine entirely. Whilst its out service the fuel pump ( replace the diapraghms) it it has not already been done and replace any rubber hoses that are hard to get at when engine is in . Plus have a good look round the engine. Its Probably not as bigger task as you may think and it will ceratainly increase your knowledge on the vehicle. Also remember these engines are big but were designed to be removed reasonably quickly. I have several Rolls Royce engine manuals so will try to help. If you have access to a forklift thats half the battle won!

flywheel.PDF

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Hello Montie

 

I have attached some scans from a B series manual . They may not be readable via this method, if you pm me with your email address I will try to email them direct. they relate to the fluid flywheel , not whole engine removal.

 

My advice is to remove the engine entirely. Whilst its out service the fuel pump ( replace the diapraghms) it it has not already been done and replace any rubber hoses that are hard to get at when engine is in . Plus have a good look round the engine. Its Probably not as bigger task as you may think and it will ceratainly increase your knowledge on the vehicle. Also remember these engines are big but were designed to be removed reasonably quickly. I have several Rolls Royce engine manuals so will try to help. If you have access to a forklift thats half the battle won!

 

Thanks Fugly, any info is welcome! I don't have a problem yet but to me this is a daunting task if it had to come to that.

At my end of the world, there are not any knowledgeable people left, so many thanks to the forum chaps!

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Oily,

 

You will want to take the engine right out, once you move it away from the gearbox, there is no sense struggling to work on it still in the vehicle, besides, you will find it easier to drain the oil off when out. I cannot see why you would wish to change the whole flywheel, once you have taken the cover assembly off and the driven member inside, there is only a ball race in the flywheel and that is probably in good order, unless the flywheel had run dry.

 

You can put away your metric sockets too, all AF sizes on these vehicles ;)

 

:-\I'm aware that all the fastenings (nuts etc,), are AF, but I've found for convenience that an 11mm socket and extension bar come in VERY handy for removing the floor plates in the footwell areas, -I'm not very supple and find them a bit of a struggle to reach! (-some of my bolts seem to have been replaced with M6 bolts, with the threads in the floor having been 'run-through' with a 6mm tap....., in other places there also lurk a few M8 bolts with new looking welded threaded bosses, in the hull and engine bay, the vehicle had a fairly major refit, in 1983, before being sold-off, so I'm thinking there may have been a shortage of the correct AF fittings and fasteners, and the ABRO/REME spanner-monkeys may have used what the had at hand....):cool2:, but thanks a great deal for your wise words, sir!!

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I'm taking a week off work, 9th - 13th of May, to tackle the replacement of my flywheel in the saracen, -does anyone know if I will need anything other than the new flywheel?, parts/seals etc?,... I'm hoping not, as I gather the seals are not very easy to get hold of. Looking at the diagrams, it is difficult to see whether, once I've split the flywheel from the coupling (in order to bolt flywheel to crank), whether any other seels need replacing..... I have a complete NOS flywheel/coupling unit, all still sealed and wrapped up, which was dated as being manufactured in 1986. I do still need a level plug removal tool, but may be able to make one up. I'm going to replace the whole thing since a) that is how it came, and b) when I lost drive, things did get very hot in tha flywheel area, so I'm gonna strip the old unit and check it for internal distortion/damage, and if all is well, I'll get some new seals and rebuild it as a spare....

Edited by oily
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Put a new seal in the new flywheel before fitting it (make sure it's a new one and not NOS) otherwise you might find yourself pulling it all to bits again before you know it. Banisters have them in stock.

 

Chris

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This all sounds simple.

 

One of our Ferrets had the fluid coupling get VERY hot, what could be damaged inside?

 

Presume they are the same item.

 

Got to pull that sometime.

 

R

 

 

If overheated, through lack of oil, the Driven member can expand so much it picks up on the flywheel. Also not unusual for the alloy cover to crack.

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This all sounds simple.

 

One of our Ferrets had the fluid coupling get VERY hot, what could be damaged inside?

 

Presume they are the same item.

 

Got to pull that sometime.

 

R

 

Paper gasket around the edge of the flywheel and the seal. I've offered to do one for someone in Nortumberland

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.... well I have heard that the 2 halves (bowls with vanes in) can distort due to excessive heat, and have been known to 'friction-weld' themselves together... but I read this in a post on here, so how reliable it was I don't know,..... as there are some VERY knowledgable people on here, but there are also some people that think they know everything!... and evidently they don't... thankfully they seem to be few and far between....

I have come across similar situations where close-running metal components have 'friction-welded' themselves together, once I had the misfortune to be riding my old Kawasaki GPz, when the o/s rear wheel bearing catasrophically failed and completely collapsed, causing the outer edge of the (rotating) brake drum to 'weld' itself to the (stationary) cast alloy brake back-plate.....it happened on a straight bit of road, and only showed up when I'd stopped, and then trid to pull away again.... it was like the rear brake had jammed on, and on closer inspection the drum and back-plate had fused into one smoking piece of alloy, with the red paint all burnt off!!... lucky it didn't happen on a bend!:shocked:

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Paper gasket around the edge of the flywheel and the seal. I've offered to do one for someone in Nortumberland

 

-does anyone have any of these to hand? or is it just normal gasket paper... how thick should it be?..... which 'seal' are you referring to? the one on the gearbox side of the coupling, around the splined part of the coupling?:(

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