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sas pinkie
04-02-2011, 14:11
Right chaps,

people at work have been bringing in their father's medals ect to have a look at. some nice peices including a WW1 issued Military medal.

My question though is this. One of the guys presented both his father's, and uncle's WW2 medals. Both sets were missing the engraved name and number round the edge. Is this right. Are these replica medals or the genuine items. I dont know enough about medals to know either way, but I always thought they were engraved with the recipriants name Ect. THe uncle's set, were presented to him whilst he was in a field hospital.

Could this be the reason for one of the sets not being engraved?

AlienFTM
04-02-2011, 14:17
Right chaps,

people at work have been bringing in their father's medals ect to have a look at. some nice peices including a WW1 issued Military medal.

My question though is this. One of the guys presented both his father's, and uncle's WW2 medals. Both sets were missing the engraved name and number round the edge. Is this right. Are these replica medals or the genuine items. I dont know enough about medals to know either way, but I always thought they were engraved with the recipriants name Ect. THe uncle's set, were presented to him whilst he was in a field hospital.

Could this be the reason for one of the sets not being engraved?

I think (don't quote me) some campaign etc medals were dished out in such vast numbers that they often weren't. They may have been issued late and the recipient would be glad just to have the medals.

My GSM came engraved with number rank name; the UNFICYP medal didn't.

I wouldn't ring alarm bells just because the medals aren't engraved.

woa2
04-02-2011, 15:38
WW1 medals were all inscribed with the recipents names and regiment. In WW2 they were not (don't know why, possibly an ecconomy thing). The only medals inscribed were gallentry and long service awards, etc.

Also, medals used to be stamped, now they are laser etched.

sas pinkie
04-02-2011, 15:47
Well there is a WW2 military Cross in amongst them, with no names or numbers, from what I can see anyway........ Any suggestions where I should be looking for those?

recymech66
04-02-2011, 16:04
Well there is a WW2 military Cross in amongst them, with no names or numbers, from what I can see anyway........ Any suggestions where I should be looking for those?

The MC will almost certainly be engraved/stamped, I have my Great Grandfathers WW1 medals and they are engraved/stamped however my Grandfathers WW2 medals aren't, as already stated maybe it's because they were dished out in vast numbers. All engraving/stamping/lazer etching is done on the outside edge of the medal, incidentley my current campaign medals started off with being stamped (GSM NI) then the later ones ie Iraq/Afghan are lazer etched.

There are many reasons why some may not be stamped when they should be, and the most common is they maybe copies of the originals that were maybe lost as they were passed down.

o.g-palmer
04-02-2011, 16:17
The majority of first war medals in my collection (including many of my own relatives) have all been named including the MM. Its completely the opposite for the second war medals i have. I have my great grandfathers medals who fought in Burma with only the Burma star named and another relatives with the Italy and Atlantic stars named.

woa2
04-02-2011, 17:11
Well there is a WW2 military Cross in amongst them, with no names or numbers, from what I can see anyway........ Any suggestions where I should be looking for those?
The MC should be clearly marked on the back. What Officer Rank was he?
All campaign plus war & Defence medals were not named, but I have heard of the wearer getting them named, but this is not Officially done.
I am a member of a Militaria group with some Medal experts among the members. I will ask them further details and get back to you.

ashley
04-02-2011, 20:04
As a general rule all the 1WW medals were officially named unlike the the 2WW issue (except for some of the colonial issues i.e. Canadian).

Post 1WW war medals were sold off to help families survive etc to save embarresment names were erased, also years later when re-unions were held medals lost/sold /stolen were replaced with re-named ones.

There was also a problem in the late seventies/early eighties where a well known dealer was erasing and re-naming medals to command a higher premium >:(:mad:

Ashley

diver99
04-02-2011, 20:21
My 2p worth.

British medals generally named except the WW2 campaign medals. After WW1, the cost was realised and Govt. said no. Except for colonial which does have the name of recipient. People could go to Boots which had a naming service.Or a jewellers.

Not all gallantry named. (Paperwork generally handy to be attributed).

Nato medals not named, neither UN Korea.

Yes the naughty crowd who were renaming waterloo medals, decided to go live in spain.

woa2
04-02-2011, 20:47
The MC should be clearly marked on the back. What Officer Rank was he?
All campaign plus war & Defence medals were not named, but I have heard of the wearer getting them named, but this is not Officially done.
I am a member of a Militaria group with some Medal experts among the members. I will ask them further details and get back to you.

I have consulted some genuine Medal experts and the results are :-
South African and some Indian Army Campaign medals were named, but not British Army medals. However, some Jewellers and Boots the Chemist did offer a naming service just after the war.
The MC was issued un-named in WW2 but had the year of issue stamped on the reverse at the base of the lower arm of the cross (eg 1944).
Hope this helps.

ashley
06-02-2011, 00:24
Yes the naughty crowd who were renaming waterloo medals, decided to go live in spain.


But one was apperently shaving off 1WW stars and renamining to replace missing ones to gallentry groups as well as 1ww war medals.

Ashley

diver99
06-02-2011, 06:31
But one was apperently shaving off 1WW stars and renamining to replace missing ones to gallentry groups as well as 1ww war medals.

Ashley

You would have thought it wasn't worth the effort, especially if the missing one turned up.
There are a number of incidents of this happening. In Medal news and Medal forum, there are posts about a named medal turning up and somebody already has one.

Also, earlier medals, Waterloo, Naval General Service weren't always 'picked-up' by the recipients.

I also forgot, Indian WW1 Stars not named

diver99
06-02-2011, 06:38
There is also an incident of the two V.C.'s Nobody can decide if it's an official copy/replacement or inscribed bought copy for replacing a lost one.

There are a couple in the Ashcroft collection on display in the new gallery at IWM which are 'official' copies.

The V.C. in the tomb of the unknown warrior in the U.S. is un-named (for obvious reasons).

ashley
07-02-2011, 21:26
Many years ago while at my local medal shop, by prior arrangement an un-named V.C. was brought in for an opinion.

Though i could look briefly but not touch one of the assembeld took a look at the cross and stated This medal should be labled "Stolen from Hancocks" as at some time i belived he had been / was employed by the company and could not understand how it had been removed from the company with out any one knowing. But they are out there.
Ashley

woa2
07-02-2011, 22:28
I was talking to the Curator of a Surrey Military Museum last year and he told me that these days they only had Reproduction medals on show, and the real ones were locked away in the vaults as they had had burglaries and didn't want the originals on display. Joe Public can't tell the difference between an original and a good reproduction and the originals were available to genuine enthusiasts to view. It seems that most if not all Military museums now follow this trend.
However, the Guns the metal was taken from to make the VC Medals are very much visable in the Firepower Museum in Woolwich.

diver99
08-02-2011, 09:07
Many years ago while at my local medal shop, by prior arrangement an un-named V.C. was brought in for an opinion.

Though i could look briefly but not touch one of the assembeld took a look at the cross and stated This medal should be labled "Stolen from Hancocks" as at some time i belived he had been / was employed by the company and could not understand how it had been removed from the company with out any one knowing. But they are out there.
Ashley

Thats interesting. I wonder if it was a genuine bronze V.C., or a Hancocks copy which they sell for 300 or so. If a genuine one, it could form the basis for a Lovejoy antiques scam.

ferretfixer
08-02-2011, 11:44
However, the Guns the metal was taken from to make the VC Medals are very much visable in the Firepower Museum in Woolwich.[/QUOTE]

It used to be the case that Ordanance (Then R.A.O.C, NOW ROYAL LOGISTICS CORPS)
Held a large lump of the metal from the famous captued guns that VC,s are manufactured from.
It was a case of the manufacturer, signing for the amount required & then returning the rest to stores. I wouldnt have thought this process has changed. Unless, a requirement from the M.O.D has been to the effect that a reasonable amount have been manufactured & then put in secure, severely controlled storage. Only to be drawn when required for award. Thus, relegating the remains of the sobastpol cannons to reside in the Firepower museum. Anyone have a definate answer?

diver99
08-02-2011, 12:56
The two cannons are in the foyer of firepower, and clearly can be seen where the 'buttons' have been cut-off for the metal. I believe Hancocks have 4-5 V.C.'s ready for engraving. I do believe your right in signing the metal out for cutting and casting.

ferretfixer
08-02-2011, 16:19
The two cannons are in the foyer of firepower, and clearly can be seen where the 'buttons' have been cut-off for the metal. I believe Hancocks have 4-5 V.C.'s ready for engraving. I do believe your right in signing the metal out for cutting and casting.

Just to be pedantic, the 'Buttons' that have been removed are called Cascabells.
Got to be honest though, I have never seen the Cannons themselves, as I have not yet visted Firepower!
Got to get around to it some day i guess!

diver99
10-02-2011, 20:06
Go before it closes. They are in dire financial straights. Long thread on ARRSE about the museum and its struggling existence. Shame really, it's a good museum. Mirbat 25 pdr. an Arnhem howitzer. It's just Woolwich is a s** hole.
Rotunda falling to pieces. Can't afford the electricity.

I have stated on arrse, i can see it going like Beverely, not immediately but perhaps in the future.

ferretfixer
11-02-2011, 08:38
Go before it closes. They are in dire financial straights. Long thread on ARRSE about the museum and its struggling existence. Shame really, it's a good museum. Mirbat 25 pdr. an Arnhem howitzer. It's just Woolwich is a s** hole.
Rotunda falling to pieces. Can't afford the electricity.

I have stated on arrse, i can see it going like Beverely, not immediately but perhaps in the future.

And I bet a pound to a pinch of Sh*t, They wouldnt get a Lottery fund grant to restore some of the buildings either! Probably because of the type of 'Items' it houses! Not politicaly correct old chap!. Rather have a Flipping Art Gallery for the Bed Wetting Tree & Bunny Huggers!....:mad:

AlienFTM
11-02-2011, 10:38
And I bet a pound to a pinch of Sh*t, They wouldnt get a Lottery fund grant to restore some of the buildings either! Probably because of the type of 'Items' it houses! Not politicaly correct old chap!. Rather have a Flipping Art Gallery for the Bed Wetting Tree & Bunny Huggers!....:mad:

There's a new issue (issue 6) of Military Times out (for subscribers: hit my doormat yesterday). Interesting article (by a sailor) decrying them selling off iirc HMS Caroline, a light cruiser and last surviving ship from the battle of Jutland.

He asks how come we have thousands of listed "buildings (stretching the term building in some cases)" around the country that absolutely need to be preserved at any cost, but the country's sum total heritage from centuries of ruling the waves is exactly thirteen ships scattered around the country in places like Hartlepool (no offence intended to monkey hangers from a mackem).

Apparently HMS Caroline is in amazing condition for a ship close to its 100th birthday, but by next year it'll probably be razor blades.

diver99
11-02-2011, 14:01
There's a new issue (issue 6) of Military Times out.

.

Allen, what is the magazine like. What is the editorial content like?
cheers

AlienFTM
11-02-2011, 15:00
Allen, what is the magazine like. What is the editorial content like?
cheers
Here's the review I put on Arrse:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/content/242-review-magazine-military-times.html

(Don't worry that it says Auld_Yin: that was before we'd worked out how to attribute the reviews to the author.)

ashley
11-02-2011, 22:16
Thats interesting. I wonder if it was a genuine bronze V.C., or a Hancocks copy which they sell for 300 or so. If a genuine one, it could form the basis for a Lovejoy antiques scam.


Hi
yes it was the genuine article.
Ashley