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Shakey985
09-07-2009, 23:20
Out of the 2 current in service recovery vehicles which one is the better as in more user friendly?
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_M-984HEMTTCekiciArac-.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=M-984HEMTTCekiciArac-.jpg)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_PICT00101.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=PICT00101.jpg)
The crane on the MAN has a better capacity but HEMTT has room for stores. to operate the hemtt is a 2 man job, some tasks 3 men.
What was the recovery trailer that came with the MAN.

recymech66
10-07-2009, 13:16
MAN SV (R) definately more user friendly, the HEMTT is American and less so, and there are a lot more than "2 current in service recovery vehicles"

Shakey985
11-07-2009, 03:19
We have the Mack R600 with Holmes crane 6+6 and there is the Tatra RV-20 SAS, Oshkosh have built a couple of overs. The Tatra has a 4 seat capacity which in my way of thinking is required as there is always the driver of the over vehicle to recover most of the time. The MAN SV (R) looks on paper the better vehicle but how are all the electronics holding up. What improvements would you make if you could?

recymech66
11-07-2009, 18:58
There have been teething problems with the complicated electronics but once they are sorted it'll be a good wagon, plus what better proving ground than on Operations in Afghanistan.

What improvements would I make? Not many, just a few gripes from a drivers perspective but nothing major, time will tell.

Shakey985
11-07-2009, 21:19
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_HRV-2-w.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=HRV-2-w.jpg)
Here is our current Mack R600 (1983) with new recovery system and an ASLAV recovery vehicle.

recymech66
12-07-2009, 06:55
Seen the Mack on a few websites nice truck, I very neary became an Aussie Recy mech, got to the interview stage but then your Government decided to drop Recovery Mechanic from the list of available jobs we Brits can transfer over to.

Gutted.

Shakey985
12-07-2009, 23:17
Keep on trying, but our rece-mechs seam to love there job. there is all ways adds for army reserve rece-mechs. We have a sergeant in gunnery wing that did 20 years with RTR.
The Mack is a very good truck entering service in 1983, I have seen it hauling loads that it really shouldn't ie something new large and heavy in from out on the range.The current Mack wrecker is the second generation since 1983, prior to that we had the M816. The boys would off preferred to transfer the crane from the 816 to the Mack.
Can you post the tab data on the man and your previous wrecker and some more photos.

shin up you can always come over for a holiday

Shakey985
14-07-2009, 07:44
I do believe our new fleet will be from BAE Systems so our next wrecker will be FMTV A1 M1089 A1 currently used by the US Army.

recymech66
14-07-2009, 18:21
Whats wrong with the Mack?

Shakey985
14-07-2009, 22:53
Thanks for your PM and I have looked at your associations web sight. BAE will replace I hope only the Unimog fleet?. I will post tab data on hemmtt and M1089.
I would just like to point out we are recording history, these vehicles are available at the right price for the private collector and in 20 years a new fleet will enter service.
Mobile Home USA
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_id_man_8x8_700_05.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=id_man_8x8_700_05.jpg)
Coming soon used Australian Landrover and Unimog fleet.

Shakey985
26-07-2009, 09:15
I have had a look at the tab data. The Hemtt as a platform runs a 500 hp Cat engine with a 5 speed auto from Allison ( your HET 1070F tank transporter are running Cat 700hp with a 7 speed auto from Allison).
With crane yours is heavier but can do a lot more in the crane department, you also have a hydrolic spade were Hemtt thy have to crane it of and assemble.
With out driving both it is hard to make a comparison but in maintenance the Hemtt with the cat and Allison would appear easier as there is more around especially over here. The same goes for you, now you have to repair 2 types.
As you were saying there is many others like Tatra, Renault and a Russian one.
What you have going for you is probably the better recovery package of the lot. I would of liked to see a crew cab/sleeper tho and due you have a fridge fitted in there.
What we need to do is design our own.:idea:

Shakey985
06-08-2009, 21:18
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_071309mc_lvsr_800wrecker.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=071309mc_lvsr_800wrecker.jpg)
This is the USMC new Wrecker coming into service soon, it is simular to the HEMTT but is called LVSR MKR15 Wrecker.
Apart from now having 10 wheels with steering on the first 2 sets and steering on the last 2 sets, it is a HEMTT
Length is just over a metre longer, the crane is better lifting 4.5 ton at 20 feet and 8 ton at 11 feet, the spade is now hydraulic, there are 2 main winchs plus self recovery winch. There is also a 10ton load space/4 pallets.
Engine 600hp Cat with 7 speed auto, only a single speed T/case
From what I can discover it is a improvment over the M984. I would love to know its turning circle compared to the M984.

recymech66
06-08-2009, 21:32
I think the MAN SV(R) will P!55 all over it, it'll take a special wagon to beat it. Plus I don't really agree with the laod space for the pallets, the "can you just shove this on and take it to this location" would be a nightmare. IMO. Would love to see it go head to head though.
What can it winch? and 8 Ton max crane lift? lousy.

Shakey985
08-08-2009, 23:00
The LVSR MKR15 comes with 2 17690kg duel drum, after having a good look at the specs your right.
Oshkosh have also developed Heavy army recovery vehicle with a 5th wheel towing and recovery device based on the 10 wheeler, thay are using Rotzler TR-80 as there winch, some thing to look at.
Currently at Pucka thay are going head to head at this stage just carrying concrete blocks around Australia. This is for the replacement of the mack fleet.
I have herd that the replacement for the unimog fleet is now up in the air, so we might see a new trial for that fleet as well.
At this stage I will have to put up whith my old M816 which I am just keeping operating for the Army Tank Museum, you should note that I am having a Ball with her towing and lifting strange heavy machines around the compound.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_My816Wreakertowing2poundercarrie-1.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=My816Wreakertowing2poundercarrie-1.jpg)
The reson I am intrested in recovery vehicles is that in the what you would call outback there are tips with colections of old rusting machines of all shapes and sizes, leftovers from mineing operations, some dating back to the T model Ford, just waiting to be sorted, recovered and restored or sold.
To get to some of these locations you need a good truck and trailer combination.
With this in mind would there with some reconfigeration of your stowage a possability of instaling a sleeper cab the size of a small popup camper trailer?.
Is there any chance of posting some pics of your truck?.:coffee:

recymech66
08-08-2009, 23:16
Paul,

It sounds like you have the best job in the world over there, can I have a job when I get out?

To answer your question about our cab, to install some sort of sleeping arrangement would be tricky given the depth of the cab but not impossible, I heard that there was to be a hammock type bed for the driver which would be suspended from hooks in the cab but I think they shelved this idea due to the MoD not liking us sleeping in our wagons anymore. Space behind the seats is very limited so I think you'll find Recy Mechs buying hammocks and throwing them up were they were going to install them in the first place.

Pics, yes I'll put some pics up hopefully tomorrow.

I'd love to be trucking around the outback picking up old trucks etc, you must love your job, damn your Government for dropping Recy Mech from the list of critical trades for emigrating.:argh:

Shakey985
08-08-2009, 23:39
Thanks for that I love this Internet, on our original mack wreckers thay instaled a canvas cabin on the back in front of the crane, it was the same as used for the mack gun tractor for the carrage of the recovered crew, of course Recy-mechs being Recy-mechs soon converted it into the moble home away from home, could this be done?

You can always come over and then apply as for my job it is fun but I hope to finish the restoration on the Vickers mediam this year it has been 4 years nearly of part time work.

radiomike7
09-08-2009, 00:10
Purely from a layman's perspective, what exactly are the terms of reference for 280 extra heavy recovery vehicles costing up to 1m each? I am sure that generations of recovery mechanics have had great fun in training recovering tanks that have been thrown into muddy lakes, but does that happen in reality? I am assuming that an 8x8 HET can drop it's trailer, reach and recover most tanks and that a modern 6x6 vehicle similar to the Foden could cope with most other breakdown/recovery/workshop crane tasks.

In the UK I regularly see the Fodens called out to recover broken down Lend Ravers which seems to be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut; do we not have any medium recovery vehicles such as the MJs any more?

recymech66
09-08-2009, 08:21
Purely from a layman's perspective, what exactly are the terms of reference for 280 extra heavy recovery vehicles costing up to 1m each? I am sure that generations of recovery mechanics have had great fun in training recovering tanks that have been thrown into muddy lakes, but does that happen in reality? I am assuming that an 8x8 HET can drop it's trailer, reach and recover most tanks and that a modern 6x6 vehicle similar to the Foden could cope with most other breakdown/recovery/workshop crane tasks.

In the UK I regularly see the Fodens called out to recover broken down Lend Ravers which seems to be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut; do we not have any medium recovery vehicles such as the MJs any more?

Do Tanks and trucks get stuck in muddy lakes often? of course they do, "8x8 HET dropping it's trailer and recoverying most tanks" Hmmm no I don't think so, if your refering to the Oshkosh HET then yes it would be up to quite a lot of tasks but not all, however you don't have one attached to every tank Sqn and Armd Inf Coy thats why you have Armoured Recovery Vehicles attached to them, and yes Foden/Man SV(R) can cope with all wheeled heavy and light plus light Armour and has some limited capability with Heavy Armour.

The RLC tank transporter driver has some recovery knowledge but can only really cope with picking up tank casualites from ECP's and tracks, however they do undertake quite extensive recovery training, but not as much as Recovery Mechanics.

As for Fodens recovering Land Rovers, well why not? we have the assets available it's what they're for then we should use them, not sure if there are any MJ's about these day's maybe sold off as the Bedford fleet is being retired (slowly).

Why have the MoD procured these new Recovery vehicles? well the ageing Foden is just about coming to the end of it's service life as is most of the medium to heavy wheeled fleet, the MoD has procured the Man Support Vehicle and obviously we need the capability to recovery it, you obviously need to go down the route of commonality of spares etc thats why it's based on the Man chassis. These are not "Extra vehicles" these will in time replace the Foden when it gets withdrawn from service.

I'm surprised you see many Fodens being used in the UK on the public roads as there is a recovery contract in place, unless your on the exercise area.

The new Man SV(R) is cutting it's teeth extremely well in Afghanistan at the moment, it's turning out to be an outstanding vehicle, definately a leap forward in technology.

radiomike7
09-08-2009, 11:34
Thanks recymech, makes more sense now.

Shakey985
09-08-2009, 18:37
This is our current fleethttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/th_RECOVERY_BEASTS.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Shakey985/?action=view&current=RECOVERY_BEASTS.jpg)

recymech66
09-08-2009, 18:46
Love the M88 Hercules.

petop
13-08-2009, 13:03
Been away from the forum for a bit and saw this thread.
The MAN SV(R) will take on most other recovery vehicles and beat them. There are bigger (read that lift more) vehicles out there but then with all the additional equiptment and ease of use of the SV(R) then it puts it above them. It is out in Afghanistan and is getting used. I know how its getting on out there and there are things that are getting improved on as its being used, after all it was urgently required out there, so soon after getting into service so there will be teething problems. Bit overall its well recieved.

Shakey985
13-08-2009, 21:22
The question is as platforms The MAN V HEMTT which is better, it would appear that both are doing well in the conditions of Afganistan, HEMTT A4 the upgraded vershion has the C-15 500hp engine with a Allison 4500SP/5 speed auto compared to the MAN engine and 12 Speed auto. I would be intrested in your opinion as to there performance while on trials. As to the recovery side after looking at a number of different options the UK package to me strikes the right balance without geting into a construction size crane.
It also appears to be a lot more soldier freindly then any of the vershions produced by Oshkosh.
What size crane did the Foden have and make?
The only down side is that there is no room for a crew cab or space to carry the crew from the disabled vehicle, could this be rectifide by relocating CES bins?
At some stage in the next 10 years our armys will start to down size again and these vehicles may come up for auction.

Richard Farrant
13-08-2009, 22:40
What size crane did the Foden have and make?


The Foden crane was made by Atlas Hydraulic Loaders, max. lifts ; @2.9m : 12.5 tonnes (min jib length)
@5.3m : 7 tonnes
@ 7.7m : 4.8 tonnes (max jib length)

petop
14-08-2009, 07:56
The question is as platforms The MAN V HEMTT which is better, it would appear that both are doing well in the conditions of Afganistan, HEMTT A4 the upgraded vershion has the C-15 500hp engine with a Allison 4500SP/5 speed auto compared to the MAN engine and 12 Speed auto. I would be intrested in your opinion as to there performance while on trials. As to the recovery side after looking at a number of different options the UK package to me strikes the right balance without geting into a construction size crane.
It also appears to be a lot more soldier freindly then any of the vershions produced by Oshkosh.
What size crane did the Foden have and make?
The only down side is that there is no room for a crew cab or space to carry the crew from the disabled vehicle, could this be rectifide by relocating CES bins?
At some stage in the next 10 years our armys will start to down size again and these vehicles may come up for auction.

The SV(R) does not have a 12 speed gearbox. The SV Cargo variants do, a 12 speed full auto or semi auto gearbox and very good it is as well. The SX variants, which the SV(R) is based on is a fully auto 6 speed gearbox. Not sure if you are mentioning SV(R) when you mention lack of room, but SV(R) has quite a bit of space and seating. The trials team were made up of ex-REME Reccy Mechs and serving, so what went in/on it was supported.
I hear that the Aus Army are looking very closely at MAN trucks at the moment.

Shakey985
14-08-2009, 21:16
The SV(R) does not have a 12 speed gearbox. The SV Cargo variants do, a 12 speed full auto or semi auto gearbox and very good it is as well. The SX variants, which the SV(R) is based on is a fully auto 6 speed gearbox. Not sure if you are mentioning SV(R) when you mention lack of room, but SV(R) has quite a bit of space and seating. The trials team were made up of ex-REME Reccy Mechs and serving, so what went in/on it was supported.
I hear that the Aus Army are looking very closely at MAN trucks at the moment.
I am sure that the SV(R) is a very good Truck and the trials team was constrained with in certain perameters. If I was on the team I would want a fridge, gas bottle and stove and a bed built into the design. To justify the fridge is for cold drinks in the hot climate they are working in, the cooking gear for the enevertable morning brew. The bed that converts to seating for the recovered crew. how ever they are not prioritys for the average ------ who lent his trade walking all day. I am sure that the recymech's over here will evently build them in if they are not suppled as they have done with the Mack.
We are looking at the MAN and use the MAN as our Tank transporter but there is more to the tender process then getting the best truck.
Have you been able to drive both MAN and HEMTT and if so which is the better and why, that is in the platform not the gear on the back.
The over thing is the crane you have gained 2.5 ton but lost 1.5 plus metres of space?
It should be noted that all my intel is from the net.
:coffee:

petop
15-08-2009, 15:38
Driven all the MAN variants, some more (1000km+) than others. As for HEMTT, had a good look round one but the PLS version is very inferior to our version. Yes it has a BIG engine, but the type of gearbox saps a lot of power and looses more importantly torque.
The PLS has a payload reduction as soon as it goes x-country, which sort of defeats the object, certainly compared to ours.
I have driven the Oshkosh PLS (slightly different to the HEMTT PLS and it is a good vehicle, and can carry full load x-country, but i would still opt for the MAN variant, just not the one we bought(!) but the SX version with full independent suspension.
Im not fully clued up on the SV(R) as my area of expertise on the trials team was not this vehicle but others.

Shakey985
18-08-2009, 20:00
http://www.armyjeeps.net/hemitt/hemmt.htm
This is one of two that were for sale in the US. This one is at $85.000 and has no mention of wheather in can be exported out of the US, the other one was on ebay and went for around $65,000 but only for sale in the US ( see steel soldier forum) it was a much better version and there is a link to photos on Flicker.
Oshkosh are now rebuilding all the old ones in a rebuild program.

big minter
26-08-2009, 08:08
im currently out in afghan using the man,its a brilliant truck,plenty of power and excellent winches.
we have had alot of teething problems with the wreckers but nearly alll of which are sorted or in the process of being sorted.
as for ease of use, yes its easy if your eyes are there for the adaptors,it becomes a pain when they aren't or you want to get underneath the casualty,this can't be done because the boom doesn't go low enough.
if i had one thing to change on the wagon it would be the boom, a big folding boom with the same lift capacity would in my eyes be a much greater piece of equipment.

Shakey985
26-08-2009, 22:01
Thanks for that so a Terex/Atlas 560.2 15ton folding crane would be better. this would leave more room for the esky and a bed. however the hight when stowed is 2465 from the bed of the truck would this interfer with its air transportablity. the original design was for a folding crane.

big minter
28-08-2009, 08:19
sorry, what i meant was the recovery boom be changed for a folding boom like you see on the back of some civi recovery vehicles.

julezee001
19-01-2010, 23:52
Had a look around this last weekend. A big beast for sure 31 tonnes before the armour is added to make it 37 tonnes! Too big? One possible mod is for a reversing camera, but I think with a crew of 2 it should be possible to reverse and pick up a casualty without backing over it?

robin craig
20-01-2010, 04:00
I do have to say it is a real pleasure to read this thread and see people who really know the kit being discussed because it is their daily ride.

Hats off to you guys and please dont stop posting or taking pictures.

Thanks

Robin

Shakey985
20-01-2010, 19:17
Thanks for that, I am currently looking at platforms for Bush fire trucks (we are in the midle of our fire season) and the same questions are asked MAN,Scania V American trucks. The RAAF have gone for the new pather rosenbauer and a scania 6x6.

As for our new trucks in mediam to heavy, the trial's have finised but there has been no anousment yet.

recymech66
20-01-2010, 20:46
Just a couple of pics.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs086.snc3/15359_1252451464252_1018483347_30817297_3277669_n. jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30817298&id=1018483347&op=3&view=global&subj=32950763611&oid=32950763611)
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1979/154/59/1040442004/n1040442004_292139_3380.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=292142&id=1040442004&op=4&view=global&subj=32950763611&oid=32950763611)